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Refurb: JD-400 with backhoe/front loader

118K views 793 replies 59 participants last post by  TrakFan 
#1 ·
Starting this thread after buying a 1980 JD-400 with both backhoe and front loader. Near as I can tell, this is the Holy Grail of attachment combo for this tractor. My intent is refurbish the rig to solid operational and cosmetic condition. Not a restoration, but bring it back to a really nice tractor without spending a stupid amount of money.

I was originally looking for a front loader which might fit my JD-318, which has a blade, mow deck and rototiller. I needed a Garden Tractor which was more Tractor than Garden. I stumbled across the 400, which was perfect for my needs. I had no knowledge of the attachments or how rare they were until posting this forum and asking if the price was reasonable. The seller is second owner and had it for 25 years. The asking was $4,900 and I purchased it for $4,200. Everything is functional with no alarming repairs or modifications except for the the 54" front blade, which he also gave me. It had been sitting outside unused and the cylinders/hoses are toast. It came with a new in the box, larger capacity, hydraulic pump to replace the undersized original. Also new plug wires, a rebuild kit for the glitchy steering control valve and original, 1979, Repair/Service manual.

The tractor is in good/fair condition for a rig often sitting outside for years. It looks a bit rough, but found no rusted out areas or severe weather damage. All the components, connections, operating linkages and running gear is in repairable condition. I only replaced the ignition switch, which failed while buying it. The motor runs amazingly well, starts right up with no funny noises. The starter Bendix hangs up occasionally, but a nudge gets it engaged. Tires are shot, but hold air.

The most obvious starting place is the hydraulic hoses. Most are original and rotted with the wire shield exposed in abrasion areas. Fittings are corroded, but only two are weeping a bit. All but one of the hydraulic cylinders are tight, which is on one of the stabilizing arms. Much to my delight, the next door neighbor has a hose crimping machine, which he will teach me how to use. The last couple days was spent identifying the required hose spec and fittings.

Hoses are 1/4" SAE 100R2-04AT (two wire shields) with appropriate fittings. Rating is 5,800 operating psi with a 4" bend radius.

I measured the hoses and logged the type fitting on each end. Preliminary pricing estimates are around $350-$400 for materials to replace every hose on the tractor!!

The next step is to drain the system and remove all hoses for use as a template, marking each for the new installation. Then the Backhoe will be disassembled in place, starting with the bucket, so the pivots and joints can be refurbished. The last piece being the attachment and control assembly. Some Zerk fittings are missing and nails used as cotter pins. Then painted and reinstalled in pieces.
 

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#2 ·
A few other things I forgot. The missing engine side cover and grill also came with it. The only modification is the oversized front loader cylinders, which had to have extended brackets to mount them. You can see the upper ones in the photo showing red cylinders on the bucket arm. They are made well and appear professional. Below are photos of the new hydraulic pump, along with the hoses and controls.
 

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#3 ·
Other than the price that is awesome. :fing32:
 
#6 ·
The ONLY 400 tractor I found nationwide with a backhoe just had a blade on the front. I looked at ads over a wide geographic area around me for a LOT of other brands and none had both attachments with a price anywhere near this. Figure I'll spend $1,000 - $1,500 to bring it to great condition. I have a good shop, airless spray rig, large media blast booth, MIG welder, tire changer, steel bender, tube bender and other tools for this.

Can you show me where another one is? What can you show me for comparative pricing of a 400 with backhoe, front loader and front blade? I've had 3 offers in the last two weeks of over $3,000 for the backhoe, as-is.

I need it to dig up a septic tank with possible repair to the drain field. Also going to make drainage channels for runoff to a small holding pond. Clearing about 1/4 acre, moving some dirt to fill low areas and create landscaping. Regrade and expand a driveway, including new crushed rock. A contractor wanted $2,500 to dig up the septic, not counting any repairs. Landscaper wanted between $8-10,000 for the other work. It's $1,200/week to rent the equipment. With both JD-318 and 400 I can do everything myself - at my own pace.

The math works great when you consider resale price and money saved. That's not even considering the fun factor! http://www.mytractorforum.com/images/MyTractorForum_toucan/smilies/tango_face_grin.png
 

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#8 ·
TT don't get me wrong you got a good deal. I'm just a cheap skate LOL...
 
#10 ·
........... :sidelaugh:sidelaugh:sidelaugh:sidelaugh:sidelaugh:sidelaugh:sidelaugh

You still can't have it Nick it's mine!:tango_face_devil:
 
#11 ·
Hoses are 1/4" SAE 100R2-04AT (two wire shields) with appropriate fittings. Rating is 5,800 operating psi with a 4" bend radius.
The maximum pressure rating for anything that is likely to be installed for that hydraulic system will be 3500 psi. The system will not see pressures that high. At 2000 psi, the loader will lift about 1200 lb at the ends of the arms or about 900 lb of payload in the bucket. A 900 lb payload will load the front tires to about 2500 lb.

You don't need 5800 psi 2 wire hose. A set of 4100 psi single wire hoses, with terminations to match, will be more than adequate and a bit easier on the pocket book.
 
#16 ·
Thanks much for 'finding' my new thread Tudor. I'm new to hydraulics and don't know enough about what this rig generates for pressure. I have a lot of reading to do in the manual for all three; 400, backhoe and loader.

I went over to my neighbor's big shop at his home and we pawed through all the stuff with the crimper. He has a bunch of hose and fittings, which he'll sell me well below retail. There is plenty of Parker 2-wire hose and boxes of fittings so I figured an overkill wouldn't hurt anything. I will go back through his stash and see how much 1-wire stuff there is. He owns a VW repair shop and BowWow. He bought a commercial crimper with a ton of hose and fittings from a shop going out of business. It's mounted on a big, steel table with drawers. Last night he said he'll clear a path and pick the whole think up with his forklift - drive it over to my place and plop it down in my garage . . . This guy has an acre with 4, medium size, metal buildings for storage and shop. An older, custom RV pusher bus and a dozen or so VW bugs scattered around.

My first task is to drain the hydraulic system so I can remove the hoses. Is there a process for doing that? I don't want to do this wrong and create some sort of air or hydro lock in the pistons by not knowing what I'm doing. The plan is to remove the hoses for templates, marking each for location, then remove the pump and steering control valve for replace and rebuild.

I'll have to move some things around in the Deere Barn to have enough room. Already took out the 318 and put under another cover. It was a lot of fun backing this rig into the barn. Nothing like executing a backwards, 25 point turn with glitchy steering. Managed to get it in without knocking down a wall.
 

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#15 ·
yes $4200 is a lot of money, but separate, those items are way more than that and that's if, if you can even find them. I would have found the money too, some way some how for that combo. I'm always looking for backhoes and never finding any. Loaders are rare enough, but backhoes, they just didn't make that many I guess, or the owners are holding on. I'll be eagerly awaiting your posts on this threat with every ounce of jealousy I have:tango_face_glasses:
 
#19 ·
HA! Bob, you made coffee come out my nose!!
Obviously you've not seen me work the backhoe . . . I would have knocked down the barn if I tried that maneuver! As you well know, the backhoe has a lot more moving parts in a lot more directions than a loader. When I tried to do a little 'digging' for fun right after getting it home - it was a comedy. The tractor was a rock'n and bouncing and banging the bucket off whatever was in reach! It's going to take some practice to smoothly manipulate the controls for a coordinated movement. Since that experience I've been thinking about welding up a roll cage for it . . .
 

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#35 ·
You do know that hydraulics will work just as hard at engine idle as it will at WOT, don't you? WOT just results in crazy fast for a novice.

Next time you experiment with it, throttle down to 1/4 and advance the throttle in increments as you become more proficient.

Sorry 'bout the coffee! :D
 
#20 ·
SIDE NOTE:
I checked out the MTF manuals and didn't see one for the JD-400. The 1979 repair and service manual came with the tractor. I'm going to copy it into a PDF format and post it. It's fairly lengthy and double-sided, so it will take a bit of time to complete.
 
#22 ·
Thanks Roger. I'm new to the tractor world, but not new to mechanics. Because of the ToasterTan handle many folks think I own a tanning salon . . .

It's IS the name of my little biz, but I make custom parts for classic Airhead BMW motorcycles made from 1969-1996. Years ago, when I got my first internet connection, I wanted the handle ToasterTank. This is the nickname for a 1972 R75/5, which was the only year that came with a chrome panel on the gas tank. It was nicknamed a 'Toaster' because it looked like a 50's toaster. It was a marketing failure and discontinued the following year.

My niece was helping me set up the AOL dial-up account and they only allowed 10 letters . . . She thought it was funny so I kept it - not knowing it would become identified with the parts I make and later the name of the company.
 

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#23 ·
If the one backhoe needed a lot of work then it may not have been a deal. They are hard to find so it is hard to be picky. We got our Brantley for the 140 it wasn't mounted to anything, missing parts and mounts and the pump. All cylinders and hoses needed replaced or rebuilt. We knew someone who did it as side work on the cylinders and it was still close to $1500 just for those.then there was a lot of welding and making new pins and bushings that were time consuming but not the expensive part. Lastly painting gets real fun. It is worth it and you buy what you can find but a deal may not be one at the end of the day.

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#25 ·
The reason I passed on it originally was cause I got to see it up close and how bad it was when my friend pulled it out of its spot where it had been sitting for 6 years it left a 8ft puddle of hydraulic fluid on the concrete I knew at the time I didn't need that taking up space in my shop and leaking hydraulic oil everywhere especially in the middle of my 332 build with more tractors coming in the near future plus now I have a Farmall 130 taking up space in my shop but still regret that decision to this day. These day's I figure I'll save my money from that and either build a setup for my 332 or just save my money and buy a 1025r in a few years after college.
 
#24 ·
Coalminer -
Yup - that's why I took a hard look at it and made sure he fired it up and fully extended everything to show it all worked. The motor runs near perfect and the problem we had starting was the switch, which is a $12 part. All the hydraulic cylinders are tight but the one on the left outrigger. It slightly weeps, but doesn't 'leak' and operates fully. The only item not functioning correctly is the steering control valve and he gave me the $50 rebuild kit for it. The pump was undersized so things ran slow, but he had a brand new pump with all the mounting hardware in a box. I've confirmed it's the correct pump with all the installation parts (see photos above) and should make things operate 100% better. I only saw one small pin bent on the hoe bucket and all the joints were smooth, if not a bit rusty. I couple zerk fittings are missing, but things had grease. No ugly noises from the PTO or shafts underneath.

I believe most buyers were put off by the photos in the ad as it looks pretty rough. I found that underneath all that - there was a solid tractor with all the parts, nothing kluged together and no mystery welds. He turned up the missing side panel and grill as well. I spent well over an hour examining things while he fiddled around to hot-wire the switch and start it. Once started, I spent another half hour making everything operate fully out and back a few times to see if it squirted blood in the air. It didn't leave anything on the ground underneath and the fittings all remained tight. There is a very slight weeping at the controls, just enough to make it damp around them, but nothing alarming.

I knew my neighbor had a commercial grade hose crimper he said I could use, which would save a LOT of money. I didn't find out until a couple days ago he also has boxes of fittings and a bunch of Parker single and double wire hose. He told me he would sell the materials for well under retail as he bought it all as a package deal from a shop going out of business and it's more than he'll ever use. This will likely bring my cost of replacing every single hose on the machine to a couple hundred dollars. He's also mentioned he may even barter for a little work on his property with it. I've got an 80 gal compressor, paint rig, media blaster, MIG, tire changer, bar and tube benders with a pretty good set of tools in a small, but nice shop. It has heat and A/C. HD TV, stero, computer and microwave. I'm kind-of retired, so my time is my time.

I've had 50+ years working on cars, motorcycles, airplanes, boats, chainsaws, and pretty much anything with an engine in it. I don't do it for a living, but has always been a strong hobby. I know good machines from bad ones - but it's always a crap shoot to some degree. You inspect, check and make the best assessment you can before putting your hand in your pocket for cash.

I think, all things considered, this is a great purchase in a LOT of ways. Just finding this combo together is winning the lotto. To have everything work with mostly cosmetics was hitting the powerball!
 

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#26 ·
I see a custom hardtail frame(paughco?), with what looks to be a Buell or 1200 engine going into it, 18"rear 21"front??
 
#28 ·
WOW! very good eye my friend! Yup, started life as a 98 S3/T, which was a great solo-tour bike. When HD put them out of business the parts and repair got stupid $$$. Never built a bike before - and never been a Harley guy, but the idea of a Thingamabobber seemed right and I had the perfect platform engine: 1203 Thunderstorm. Dyno's at 98 hp to the back wheel with 78 ft/lbs torque at 4,300 rpms. It's a hair on fire stump puller!
 

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#27 ·
A man's gotta have his toys. I'm single, which is a bad thing, because no one says no to me . . .

The last photo is my first full scratch build of my design. Still a work in progress.
 

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#30 ·
Looks like a somewhat modified R71, but could be a Chang Jiang . . . Tank is wrong for either.

I illegally imported a Chang sidecar rig, which was a hoot. Had more fun converting my friends /2 by bolting up an R100 engine in it. You'll note we have AK luggage on the front :) Couldn't get mine in a scabbored with the 75 round drum on it . . .

I feel this discussion is OK as the Chang was frack'n tractor.
 

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#31 ·
I'm off to the Deere barn to drain the life out of the 400 . . .
 
#33 ·
#32 ·
Every time I see that I get mad too, because when I was brand new to this hobby years ago a 400 TLB sold on our local classifieds. It looked exactly like yours, and the price was $600... I didn't get there fast enough and I'm still mad about it lol. Someday. In the meantime, I'm living vicariously through you

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#38 ·
I was sidetracked yesterday with more pressing issues and didn't get to the 400. I also started reading - and copying - the JD-400 service manual, which is now complete.

Where/how/who should I submit the manual for posting on this forum? It's in PDF format.

It turned out nice a clear, but lengthy. I need to do one more consolidation of the files and it's ready to upload.
 
#39 ·
I've finished consolidating PDF files into one manual: JD-400_Maint-Service_Manual-Mar_1982 (413 pages :tango_face_surprise )

How do I submit it for the library? :dunno:
 
#41 ·
Thank you!

By clicking on the yellow diamond under your user name, I reported your post to the Mod forum. That will get the attention of the Admin or Super Mod who looks after the library. I expect that you will get a PM sometime today.
 
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