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post #121 of 140 Old 06-07-2019, 10:16 AM
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Re: New toy - 1953 Bel-Air sedan

Congrats, the feeling you get when these projects come to life is hard to explain, it's a "you've got to do it yourself" to appreciate them.

re. carb spacer. I'm running an Edelbrock 1406 on an Edelbrock Performer split plane intake and after I got it running I had hot restart and idle issues. Cold starts and all around running was great but if I parked to fuel up or run into a store the restarts were hard. Ends up heat from the intake was boiling fuel out of the fuel bowls into the venturi's making an over rich condition. I added an Edelbrock 9266 insulator and it improved everything I had problems with. You're wood spacer is doing the same but I'd check it for vacuum leaks as it may be why you can't adj those idle mixtures.

re. timing. My 350 is a 69 model and the spec's called for 4 BTDC at idle. Mine starts and runs much better at 12 BTDC at idle.
I've been studying up and the consensus is these SBC's should see 36 BTDC max advance (around 2500 - 3000 rpm) with vacuum disconnected. I may try this but at this point the engine is running too good to fix, LOL.

re. cooling fan. I'm also running an electric fan, a 16" puller fan. I had enough clearance to mount it on the inside so it would pull through the radiator. The sender is set up to come on at 200 and turn off at 185. I also made up a shroud for it. At normal cruising between 5 mph to 50 mph the fan never comes on. At extended idle like in stop & go traffic , drive in windows etc., or when I'm running over 60 mph the fan comes on and keeps it between 195 and 205.
It's said a puller fan is more efficient than a pusher, just an FYI.

In any case congrats and carry on, it looks and sounds great.
Dave

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post #122 of 140 Old 06-07-2019, 10:47 AM
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Re: New toy - 1953 Bel-Air sedan

I finally listened to more of your last video. I stopped when you were discussing the carb issues LOL.
Re. steering box. 1979-1985 Toyota straight axle trucks, 4 Runners & Landcruisers used a steering gearbox that mounted inside the frame in the same area you're thinking about. Many folks that build 47-66 Chevy trucks uses them. Many came with power steering and the std GM power steering pump would work.

Many after market parts resellers for those same model pickups offer a kit that uses a 1969-87 GM Saginal steering box that mounts up front, uses several U joints and has the hardware to change out the old pitman arm & drag link to a shorter pitman arm and adjustable drag link to connect to the box.
The kits aren't cheap but they're complete and "may" work on your car.

re. steering column. Theres many kits available to either fully replace your stock column with a tilt or a kit that allows you to cut the column off at the firewall and uses U joints and shafts to connect to the box. The box can be mounted anywhere for these kits as they are universal. If you chose to cut off the stock column the kit includes a bearing and holder that supports the cutoff end of the column.
Like anything to do with this hobby these kits aren't cheap. But one could use them as a template to make their own up too.

Heres some links you may can use: Theres more these are just a sampling.

https://www.performanceonline.com/19...teering-Parts/
https://www.classicparts.com/Steerin...s/products/64/
Dave

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w/50" sicklebar mower, 36" rotary mower, snow blade, alternator/welder.
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post #123 of 140 Old 06-12-2019, 09:37 AM Thread Starter
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Re: New toy - 1953 Bel-Air sedan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volfandt View Post
I finally listened to more of your last video. I stopped when you were discussing the carb issues LOL.
Re. steering box. 1979-1985 Toyota straight axle trucks, 4 Runners & Landcruisers used a steering gearbox that mounted inside the frame in the same area you're thinking about. Many folks that build 47-66 Chevy trucks uses them. Many came with power steering and the std GM power steering pump would work.

Many after market parts resellers for those same model pickups offer a kit that uses a 1969-87 GM Saginal steering box that mounts up front, uses several U joints and has the hardware to change out the old pitman arm & drag link to a shorter pitman arm and adjustable drag link to connect to the box.
The kits aren't cheap but they're complete and "may" work on your car.

re. steering column. Theres many kits available to either fully replace your stock column with a tilt or a kit that allows you to cut the column off at the firewall and uses U joints and shafts to connect to the box. The box can be mounted anywhere for these kits as they are universal. If you chose to cut off the stock column the kit includes a bearing and holder that supports the cutoff end of the column.
Like anything to do with this hobby these kits aren't cheap. But one could use them as a template to make their own up too.

Heres some links you may can use: Theres more these are just a sampling.

https://www.performanceonline.com/19...teering-Parts/
https://www.classicparts.com/Steerin...s/products/64/
Dave
Thanks for the links on the steering parts. I have a good idea what I want to do. I think a Vega inside rail steering box and 2 U joints will work. I plan to make my factory steering column work, weld a bearing mount in the end so I can use a press in sealed bearing, and I already have a bunch of short shafts and U joints that I got off a hot rod shop that closed and was sold. I do my best work with no planning, and just flying by the seat of my pants and making it happen.

The carb issues I am not worried about too much- it could be the carb is messed up too, I put new gaskets in it and cleaned it a bit before I put it on the car, but it was on a plow truck previously and very corroded. I did have my fuel pressure up around 9 PSI which for a Edelbrock is too Much so I dialed it back to 6 for now, I may drop it to 5.5 or maybe even 5 and I still need to wrok on my timing a bit. I put lighter springs in my distributor, and at idle it seems to run about 32 degrees timing, and only goes to 35 or 36 at 2500-3000 rpm. SO I need to add at least one heavier spring in the distributor. This distributor I had lying around was kind on messed up anyway, I had previously locked out the timing on it and it with screws and since I put it back, I can't seem to get the counter weights to work properly, even though I put a new set in it.

I have a lot of time tuning motors previously, so I am not too worried about getting it right, I have confidence in myself, just need to tinker. I had issues previously with the fuel boiling in an edelbrock carb which I think is why I originally added the spacer, but this is an air gap intake manifold, and has four corner cooling in it, so it will run cooler than a standard intake manifold, I may try putting the carb right on the intake and retuning. This cam does have a good deal of overlap too, so it is a little more tuning than normal. Only about 12" of vacuum at idle I believe.

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post #124 of 140 Old 06-12-2019, 09:48 AM Thread Starter
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Re: New toy - 1953 Bel-Air sedan

I did get my clutch pedal bracket made and hung in the car, started mocking up the pedal, go it hung, trimmed the clutch master pushrod, welded it together (too short ), and made a lower radiator mount out of some old bed frame angle iron. I am getting things nibbled away, one piece at a time.

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post #125 of 140 Old 06-12-2019, 12:39 PM
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Re: New toy - 1953 Bel-Air sedan

Just like the old Johnny Cash song huh ?...

I saw two 1953 Belair's on Facebook Marketplace over the weekend for sale..one was blue & white ,looked pretty minty condition..


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post #126 of 140 Old 06-13-2019, 09:21 AM
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Re: New toy - 1953 Bel-Air sedan

I too like to fly by the seat of my pants. LOL... Sometmes I'll hit a stopping point, cypher out what direction to go next, start collecting/fabb'ing up needed eqt then wait on the "round-to-it". Sometimes it comes around the next day other times a little longer and other times it may take a year or 2 LOL.... It's all relative...

re. Edelbrock carbs, since I installed that insulator the 350 has become a very dependable powerplant. Smooth idle hot or cold, easy starts and restarts and makes a nice throaty roar with the throttle plates flung wide open, LOL. I was contemplating an FI Tech solution before hand but now am finding other uses for the money I didn't have to spend anyways.

re. steering, I came oh so close to changing my 49 GMC project over to power steering to address the problem I ran into adapting the 350 to it. I found a much cheaper way that works surprisingly well but at one point I was a click away from ordering the necessary kits. I had decided to cut/modify my stock steering column in the same way you decided. I still think thats the way to go should I readdress power steering.
Good luck and keep us posted, with pics & vid's LOL.
Sounds like you've got a good handle on the task at hand, carry on...
Dave

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post #127 of 140 Old 06-13-2019, 10:59 AM Thread Starter
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Re: New toy - 1953 Bel-Air sedan

I did a little more tinkering last night. I got the clutch set up, working, and bled. The correct hydraulic line that I ordered for the master to slave had a fitment issue... Mainly, the threaded nut on the ends of the line was too short, so when I tightened it all the way down, the bubble fitting wasn't even hitting the inside of the master or slave, so it wouldn't seal. So what I had to do was buy two solid brass M12x1.0 to 3/16" brake line inverted flare adapters, and those threded in and got tight as they should. So I just used a 3/16" coated brake line, and bent it in the right shape with a loop in it so it still has some flex in it.

It took me about an hour to bleed it too, but now I have a nice firm pedal, and I can look through the hole in the floor whil I press the pedal, and see the clutch fork move

next up is brakes and steering... probably brakes first, as I have most of those parts already.

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post #128 of 140 Old 06-13-2019, 11:04 AM Thread Starter
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Re: New toy - 1953 Bel-Air sedan

here are some update pics

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post #129 of 140 Old 06-13-2019, 11:13 AM Thread Starter
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Re: New toy - 1953 Bel-Air sedan

Also, I did a little messing around with the carb. I had forgotten (as they say if you don't use it you lose it) that a 4 hole spacer works better for a carb that is too big for a motor- it effectively lengthens the runners on the carb venturi's and will help give a better signal to the bottom of the carb when it's too big. I had a 4 hole 1" thick plastic spacer in my stock pile, so I swapped that out with the 1/2" wood spacer I had on the car, and while doing that, I realized I never fully tightened the carb mounting bolts down. So I am sure I had a vacuum leak, and that wasn't helping anything. I didn't have time to get back out and tune it at all, but I will soon.

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post #130 of 140 Old 06-13-2019, 11:49 AM
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Re: New toy - 1953 Bel-Air sedan

I installed power steering and tilt column to a 1946 ford pickup truck. Had a chevy 350 in the truck ,,used a firebird /camaro steering box , power steering pump bolted right up to the engine. 2 of the mounting bolts on the steering box matched the ford holes,,built a bracket for 3rd one.. A mid 80's full size chevy van has a relatively short steering column ,and a double U joint built into it ,,,that has the same spline as the steering box. The double U joint in that column gives you a lot a flexibility in your installation ,even if the box and column are not aligned. Did not buy any after market parts to install the power steering and tilt column. Find a self service junk yard ,bring your tape measure and check out the van steering column. Chevy built the same full size van from 1980's through 1995
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post #131 of 140 Old 06-19-2019, 09:28 AM Thread Starter
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Re: New toy - 1953 Bel-Air sedan

I did a little more tinkering on the car after putting the spacer under the carb... I was able to adjust the idle air circuits after putting the spacer on and making sure everything is tightened down correctly. I am still having the exhaust so rich that is makes your eyes water and makes you choke. I did a bunch of reading online, and it seems that there is a slight possibility that either my floats are incorrectly adjusted, one or both may have pinholes in them, or the carb may just have an issue otherwise.

I am going to pull the top of the carb off hopefully tonight, and check the level of the floats, and make sure neither of them have holes in them, also check to make sure I didn't forget putting a needle in or something when I put it back together. or maybe the rebuild kits needs have the wrong taper too, I have seen that happen too.

One other thing I have been working with is my tachometer died. It is an Equus brand (owned by Auto Meter) with an air core movement (no idea what that means). I have an old MSD Super HEI ignition control module in my distributor, and I have two other tachometers, one a Sunpro, and one an old greenline Sun brand tach, and both of those continue to work with my distributor. But, after I installed my Equus tach, it worked for basically the first time I started the car after I installed it. Once I shut the car down and restarted it, the tach was non-functional. I wrote the company, and they asked me to verify power, wiring, etc, and send them a copy of the receipt, so I took pictures of the voltage at the tach wires (12.6v), and showed them the install, and they said, ok and sent me a replacement tachometer. So I got the new on in, and same thing, worked great for 5 minutes, shut the car off, and when I restarted the car, the tach was dead- the new one. So I called the company this time, and spoke with a technician, sent pictures of my ignition control module, and explained my installation again in detail, and said I have two other tachs that don't work, and they told me to try putting a 10k ohm resistor between ground and my signal wire on my tach thinking it may magically fix my broken tach (which it didn't). I think putting a resistor in the signal wire is a crummy bandaid and should not be necessary. Then they tried to say that my ignition control module was a chinese knockoff because he had never seen one before (it came out of an MSD distributor, and it says msd right on it) and that may be why it broke my tachs. Thats a load of crap.. SO I have not heard back yet if they plan to send me another tach or not, but in the meantime, I grabbed a used GM distributor with a factory control module and factory internals and I plan to put that in my car and try to see if it works better than the MSD module, and if it does, fine I will leave it in the car. But, if I don't get another tach, then I don't see the point swapping my distributor or even just the control module into my motor. So that has been frustrating.

Also, I am still messing around with the weights and advance curve in my distributor as well. Basically the car runs great with about 30-32 degrees advance at idle, if I turn it down to about 12-15 where it should be, it doesn't run nearly as well, but the way I have the distributor set up, I only get about 3-5 degrees advance at like 2500 rpm and up, so the springs are too heavy or the weights are too light to make the advance work, but as part of swapping in the factory distributor, I want to try the factory weights with one weight lighter spring, and see if maybe I can get to 20 degrees initial advance, and maybe 32-35 total at 2500 or 3000 rpm

This stuff is the fun part, as well as the frustrating part

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post #132 of 140 Old 06-19-2019, 09:04 PM
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Re: New toy - 1953 Bel-Air sedan

The Chevy HEI unit is one of the best on the market. Unless you're gunning for 450+HP the factory HEI is more than adequate. I'm running one on my 300HP 350 with a cheap tach with absolutely no problems, easy starts and good performance.

I'm still running an idle timing of 13 degrees BTDC. I used the vacuum method to set it, i.e. set idling timing to get max vacuum at idle then back it off 1 -2 inches of vacuum. I plan on doing the 2500-3000 rpm setting at 46 degrees BTDC but at this time I pretty happy with where its at now. Your setting sounds way to high for idle but I don't know your cam etc.

Sounds like your Edelbrock carb may be setup for a higher HP engine or someone along the way put larger main jets and/or metering rods to enrichen the fuel mixture. Edelbrock markets a tuning kit that includes main jets, springs and metering rods to fine tune the carb to the engine. The kits ain't cheap but are alot cheaper than a replacement carb.
This video covers some basics:

And calibration video:

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post #133 of 140 Old 06-20-2019, 06:43 AM
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Re: New toy - 1953 Bel-Air sedan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volfandt View Post
Sounds like your Edelbrock carb may be setup for a higher HP engine or someone along the way put larger main jets and/or metering rods to enrichen the fuel mixture. Edelbrock markets a tuning kit that includes main jets, springs and metering rods to fine tune the carb to the engine. The kits ain't cheap but are alot cheaper than a replacement carb.
This video covers some basics:
]
Ya that's my thought.. The carb is not that big for that size, and output engine. Might not be the best size... But really ive tuned engines that are much more over carbed.. Also I have yet to work on a carbureted engine that didn't like some spacer. Open, or closed... depends on the combo, but all liked some spacer.

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post #134 of 140 Old 06-20-2019, 09:52 AM Thread Starter
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Re: New toy - 1953 Bel-Air sedan

I have watched all those videos. I know you don't know my background, so I thank you for all the video and other suggestions, but I have been working on cars since I was a kid, tuned many Holleys and Demon carbs, but Edelbrocks in my time with them, when you bolt them on typically they work out of the box and need only the idle air adjusted. This one has some issues... The carb is factory stock with the exception that I swapped the electric choke out for a manual one, did a quick clean and new gaskets, and swapped floats from another carb that had less abuse.

The only difference between the manual choke and electric choke models from the factory is the step up springs.

So here is what I did last night...

I pulled the top off the carb, and checked the floats. They were set wayyy to high, and with too much drop. So instead of being a 7/16" to 1/2" height when they close, they were only about 1/4" so they closed way too late. Also, they were set to droop all the way but, basically they could droop all the way to the bottom of the bowl. So that was an easy remedy, and definitely was a lot of the issue.

While I was in the carb, I did swap out the step up springs with the orange ones that should be in a manual choke model. After I got the carb all buttoned back up, I swapped out my MSD HEI module for a factory GM one (actually an accell module but in factory form) and put in the factory weights and center piece for the mechanical advance. I put in a medium spring so I could get a bit faster advance with it all in around 3000 rpm (or therabout, I don't have a working tach at the moment). Put all that back in, and started the car. Right off it ran much better, definitely had significantly less raw gas smell coming out the exhaust, but I quickly noticed I had a massive fuel spray coming out the fuel inlet (Spectre hard line with plastic washers for seals). The plastic washers were deformed from me putting it on and off a few times, so I yanked that off, and used a standard brass fuel inlet on the carb, and moved my fuel guage to the front of the regulator instead (it's a little harder to read here, but still OK). I started the car back up, verified it had no more fuel leaks, and dropped the fuel pressure to 5psi from the 6.5 that I had it runing at. As I lowered the fuel pressure, the car smoothed out dramatically and the rpm rose just as if I was leaning out the idle screws on the carb. I got the fuel pressure stabilized, thats when I discovered the 3/8" fuel line I bought (rubber hose) was either collapsing under vacuum (on the PCV hose) or swelling under heat and pressure on the fuel side and my 4 corner cooling lines on the intake. So when I had my fuel pressure guage by the carb, it is likely the fuel pressure was much higher than 6.5 psi, since the fuel line was swelling.
So I grabbed the roll of fuel line and read it, and it says right on it "3/8" fuel line, not for use on underhood applications" - tell me where you use fuel line on a vehicle that is NOT underhood? I had never even seen fuel line that said it can't be used underhood... I looked up the specs and the max temp of the fuel hose I have is only 150 degrees.
thats rediculous. It's useless in a car. So pay attention to what you buy when buying fuel hose from a hardware store!!!

Anyway, so where I am not, I have my ignition timing doing pretty well, I think I have it at about 15 degrees initial, and adding about 12 degrees full in - I may like a little more initial timing, I usually like about 32-35 degrees all in, seems to get the best power that way with a mild cam. I plan to order all new fuel hose, and hopefully finish welding my trunk pan so I can install my fuel cell in the trunk, and actually get my fuel gauge and the steel hard fuel lines in the car sooner than later.

Brakes after that, then steering. I need a few parts that cost a few hundred dollars and I don't have a ton of free cash right now. Vacation is coming up, and I need a few bucks for that. I'm getting antsy now cause I am getting pretty close to being able to at least drive it around my yard, and I don;t have enough time it seems as I try to balance time with my kids and working on projects, and I don't have a ton of money right now. Trying to be thrifty, sell stuff to buy stuff, but no one seems to be buying anything right now.

If the carb still runs funny after getting all the new lines in, I may still go to a 570 cfm Holley or Demon street carb, or a 600 cfm holley. I think they are way easier to tune, and I actually prefer a double pumper to a standard model, but I will get what I can.

I have a 600 cfm edelbrock on the car now, all rebuilt, and a 750 that is pretty immaculate inside and if I get a holley, I will probably sell both the edelbrocks. Bummer... I really like them, but theyre not the best for tuning or performance IMO.

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1967 Super 12 Special
1967 Super 12
1966/68 Sub "Miss Emma Lee" Diesel
1968 Super 12 Hydrotrac
1970 Sub 12
1970 Sub 12
1971 SS14 Hydro Diesel
1973 SS16 Diesel
1973 SS16 (red)
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1976 SS18
1976 Roper RT16T with Loader
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post #135 of 140 Old 06-20-2019, 09:09 PM
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Re: New toy - 1953 Bel-Air sedan

Good to hear. Altho I don't know you I definitely think you know what you're doing and don't mean to imply you don't. I like video's anymore as they save alot of typing, LOL...
I know enough to be dangerous and just went through setting up a 350 with an Edelbrock 1406 not too long ago. It too wasn't right at 1st but now the 350 runs like a well oiled sewing machine...I know some folks that knock the Edelbrocks and call them AFB clones (which technically they are). I think they're less trouble than my old 650 Holley was but thats just me. It's wise to keep the fuel well filtered but thats true for any carb.
Anyways, keep us updated and carry on, enjoying your progress.
Dave

2004 Kubota BX23 w/60" MMM, Thumb, AM/FM/CD.
https://www.mytractorforum.com/showth...highlight=BX23,

1966 Wheel Horse 856, Gear.
1966 Wheel Horse 876, HST.
w/50" sicklebar mower, 36" rotary mower, snow blade, alternator/welder.
https://mytractorforum.com/showthread...hlight=856,876

The USMC, providing the enemies of the USA the opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
Volfandt is offline  
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