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Old 10-06-2009, 06:00 PM   post #1 of 14
RedBull
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Default HT 3813 Clutch Reaction Time Question

I went to look at a HT 3813 that I am thinking of buying today and I have a questiion. It cranked right up and sounded very good. When you put it in gear and let out on the clutch, there is a pause of about 3-4 seconds before it starts to move. This is true for any gear. Is this normal?
Thanks,
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Old 10-06-2009, 06:17 PM   post #2 of 14
larryccf
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Default Re: HT 3813 Clutch Reaction Time Question

per the svc manual it is supposed to be a one second delay
mine had gotten as bad as 12-15 seconds before i broke bad and bought a svc manual

there's an adjustment that is fairly easy to make, takes maybe total of 10 minutes first time - looking in over top the right rear tire, there will be a nut staring squarely at you at about 1:00 O'clock

there appears to be a second nut just behind it that you'll think is a lock nut - it's not, it's one pc with the first nut you see - turn clockwise a few times, and check the delay - mine took about a dozen turns to bring down to the one second delay -

there's another check for the clutch disc thickness, ie how far it;s worn but too difficult to describe in typed text
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Old 10-06-2009, 07:42 PM   post #3 of 14
RedBull
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Default Re: HT 3813 Clutch Reaction Time Question

Thanks for that info Larry. The tractor needs blades and the long belt that actuates the blades. The tires are original and have bad dry rot but hold air. Needs paint to look good. The clutch for the blades is stuck. He said when the long belt is on the tractor, the blades start turning as soon as the tractor is cranked. The engine and transmision seemed good. Any thoughts on what it is worth?
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Old 10-06-2009, 07:58 PM   post #4 of 14
larryccf
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Default Re: HT 3813 Clutch Reaction Time Question

they seem to go, in running condition, on egay, anywhere from $350 - 600 (600 for prime condition with no issues)

for an idea on cost of PTO clutch, (without knowing what's locked up)
if just the bearing, that can be replaced with generic bearing from local bearing supplier, ie Applied Technology Industries, Motion Industries or even NAPA)
(mfgrs will build / design using commonly available bearings, seals etc)

but if just the bearing, $15, which is what i would suspect it is

but that PTO clutch assy can be a real pain to get off - i just took the one off my 3813, that i first purchased 1990, and even with all the patience, tons of kroil penetrating oil, mild to hot heat, it finally came off, but bent the pulley sligthly (only place to put the gear pullers)

i was able to straighten mine, but they are no longer available, and that is a special pulley as the back side mates to the clutch -
the clutch assy for the PTO (what honda calls clutch disc and drive or brake plate) are about $177 . Boats. net seems to be the best discount source for honda parts
(http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Ho...999/parts.html

on the up side, the shaft coming out the front side is 1.0" diameter, no taper just a straight shaft, which means there are tons of commonly available electric PTO clutches (with built in pulley) available on ebay, generally see them going for mid $50, new ones for $240 (Ogura, Warner etc) Ogura's top end electric clutch runs close to $400

also on the upside, that lawn tractor, if you will get the svc manual, and go thru it svcing all the points every owner from the beginning of time seems to ignore (myself included), it will be a sweet lawn machine - honda built the honda accord of lawn tractors with the 3813

the later models (4514, 4518) are built on the same frame and a lot of components are modular - i just installed a 46" deck on my 3813, had to secure a set of 4518 front mule drive pulleys, and weld one set of shoulder bolts up on the frame rails. In my opinion, the 3813 is a nicer choice - while i like the greater HP of the 4518, i don't like the electronic control modules that run $200 to replace and there are a couple on them - the 3813 has a simple transistorized magneto ignition system and some relays for other controls - but i just bought a complete wiring harness on ebay that owner left all the relays attached, for $5 or 6 bucks - got it in, and checked all the relays (svc manuals has the electrical values for each) and all are good - so i'm set for those - a lot of 3813s are "dying" with owners not willing to svc or repair

that 3813 deck has so much lift, it will lift gravel off the driveway - and i believe suck the chrome off hubcaps if given the chance

i'd check stuff like mower deck spindles - since the belt is off, turn each blade by hand, try to spin em fast and listen for abnoral noise or resistance - the bearings (there are two) in each blade shaft mandrel, are commonly available as well, but can be a pain to extra (i just had one that took four days of heating, oiling, heating & oiling, 3-4 times a day till the bearing finally released

boats.net link above, the parts schematics are great source of info on how things come apart

i'd also assume the timing belt (yes it has a timing belt, as it's an overhead cam engine) will probably need replacement - belt wasn't expensive iirc, about $44, but engine has to come out to replace

review the other threads on this forum, there's a lot of good info

I'd probably mention to the owner about the pto pulley not being available any longer - he can call his local honda dealer if he doesn't already know - that should help negotiating a decent price
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Old 10-06-2009, 08:08 PM   post #5 of 14
RedBull
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Default Re: HT 3813 Clutch Reaction Time Question

That is a lot of great information. Thank you.
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Old 10-07-2009, 01:33 PM   post #6 of 14
markusedma
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Talking Re: HT 3813 Clutch Reaction Time Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryccf View Post

the later models (4514, 4518) are built on the same frame and a lot of components are modular - i just installed a 46" deck on my 3813, had to secure a set of 4518 front mule drive pulleys, and weld one set of shoulder bolts up on the frame rails. In my opinion, the 3813 is a nicer choice - while i like the greater HP of the 4518, i don't like the electronic control modules that run $200 to replace and there are a couple on them

Actually they are different frames (3813 to 4514)... I'm looking at the two I stripped right now. (not trying to be a you know what) Larry, you prefer the 3813 over the 4514? That MAT is a pain... Hydrostatic trans is alot easier, better PTO clutch design and the tractor as a whole feels more solid... plus the decks on the 3813 were crappy. just my .02 worth.
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Old 10-07-2009, 04:40 PM   post #7 of 14
larryccf
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Default Re: HT 3813 Clutch Reaction Time Question

i had a 4519 seat subframe with the deck lifting handle that my seller gave me with the deck i bought -
it bolted right up to the 3813 frame, same threaded wells in the frame and located exactly

a couple of other components also interchanged - the 4518 front mule drive pulleys, bolted to same threaded wells

only difference(s) i suspect are the small additions, like the shoulder pins that are welded on the frame for the deck linkage to hand off - it would make sense for honda to use the same frame as they'd get more mileage out of the tooling

maybe what i should have said was the core ladder frames are the same, as those are identical, from the components i've been able to interchange - the seat subframe and the other additions would change with model

and i agree the hydrostat is a better or more convenient transmission - i've got one on the bolens tractor i purch'd - but for ease on the wallet and in time in terms of diagnosing ignition issues, i prefer the non-computer controlled system of the 3813 - also easier to repair a system by working around it - it's more difficult, for me, to work around computer controlled systems (they might not be computers but whatever those "controllers" are the 4518 has)

as to the 3813's deck being crappy - not sure what you're comparing it to - mine, like i said above, has so much lift or suction, it filled the grass hoppers full to the top - and stands my grass up for a real even cut - ****, it picks up gravel going across the driveway set at 3.5" height

one poster on another board complained his had slung gravel at his windshield and broken it so it had to have been decent size gravel it picked up

Last edited by larryccf; 10-07-2009 at 04:54 PM.
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Old 07-30-2010, 02:08 PM   post #8 of 14
pmeacham3
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Default Re: HT 3813 Clutch Reaction Time Question

hey guys, I know this is an old thread, but I hope not abandoned. I have a 3813 and need to adjust the clutch, but am not finding the correct bold per the description. Can anyone post a picture of theirs or the correct page out of the manual? Thanks for the help and all the great advice I have found on this site!

Paul
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Old 08-04-2010, 09:21 AM   post #9 of 14
Bob V
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Default Re: HT 3813 Clutch Reaction Time Question

Paul...Did you ever figure out where the adjustment is? If not, I can help you.
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Old 08-12-2010, 02:42 PM   post #10 of 14
kaz
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Default Re: HT 3813 Clutch Reaction Time Question

Speaking of the clutch and trans. When I drive my tractor, I get a whining noise from the back. The clutch in 2nd gear seems to be fine, not worn yet. So maybe a bad bearing, or is this normal.
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Old 08-13-2010, 06:54 PM   post #11 of 14
c3ajeff
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Default Re: HT 3813 Clutch Reaction Time Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaz View Post
Speaking of the clutch and trans. When I drive my tractor, I get a whining noise from the back. The clutch in 2nd gear seems to be fine, not worn yet. So maybe a bad bearing, or is this normal.
I have the same thing - the tranny sounds almost like there are straight gears in it - not real loud but it does whine. I don't see where I can check fluid level in the tranny (is it sealed?) nor do I know what kind of fluid I would put in it if I could.

My 3813 also seems like the tranny is slipping - now I will say that I am towing a lawn sweeper that I blow clippings into (and it picks up anything I miss) and I am a pretty big/heavy guy. It seems like 3/4 gears are not much faster than 2nd and 5th is like WAY faster. I mow in 3rd or 4th mostly. Are there any adjustments? Seems like a read somewhere there is a cluth thickness adjustment and given that this mower is pretty long-in-the-tooth some adjustments might need to be made.

ideas??

Thanks,

Jeff
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Old 08-15-2010, 03:25 PM   post #12 of 14
Bob V
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Default Re: HT 3813 Clutch Reaction Time Question

Jeff...If you squat down directly behind the tractor, there is a black metal plate below the seat that covers the gas tank. That plate has an oval window cut into it on the left side. If you look in there you will see a plug. That is your transmission oil level plug. You will need a 17 mm socket and an extention to remove it. When you remove the plug, the oil level should be level with the bottom of the threads. Be sure your tractor is on a level surface when checking.

The transaxle uses 10-40W engine oil. If you decide to change it, drain it all out using the bottom plug and after replacing the bottom plug, fill it with 10-40W oil until it reaches the bottom of the threads of the top hole.

The clutches on the HT3813 are self adjusting. There is only an adjustment for the initial delay in the take off. If you clutch is starting to slip, it is time to replace the disc.

Happy Wrenching
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Old 08-15-2010, 07:23 PM   post #13 of 14
c3ajeff
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Default Re: HT 3813 Clutch Reaction Time Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob V View Post
Jeff...If you squat down directly behind the tractor, there is a black metal plate below the seat that covers the gas tank. That plate has an oval window cut into it on the left side. If you look in there you will see a plug. That is your transmission oil level plug. You will need a 17 mm socket and an extention to remove it. When you remove the plug, the oil level should be level with the bottom of the threads. Be sure your tractor is on a level surface when checking.

The transaxle uses 10-40W engine oil. If you decide to change it, drain it all out using the bottom plug and after replacing the bottom plug, fill it with 10-40W oil until it reaches the bottom of the threads of the top hole.

The clutches on the HT3813 are self adjusting. There is only an adjustment for the initial delay in the take off. If you clutch is starting to slip, it is time to replace the disc.

Happy Wrenching
Hey Bob Thanks!

I will have a look at her tomorrow. Do you use standard Dino oil or Synthetic? I prefer Synthetic for everything mechanical that I lubricate but sometimes Dino oil works better in certain circumstances (sometimes synthetic is too slippery if you can imagine that!) ... just wondering.

As for the transmission clutch disc(s) where can those be located (to purchase?) or are they still available?

Thanks again

Jeff
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Old 08-16-2010, 09:41 AM   post #14 of 14
Bob V
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Default Re: HT 3813 Clutch Reaction Time Question

Hi Jeff...Either synthetic or dino oil will work fine in the transaxle. If you are planning on keeping the tractor, I would go with synthetic. The transaxle take 2.5 quarts.

I have listed the link to Boats.net below. Open the link and go down the list to CLUTCH & PROPELLER SHAFT. Click on it and your disc is part #6. Boats.net is the dealer used by most on this site because they sell to the public at 20% under dealer list.

Happy Wrenching...

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Ho...999/parts.html
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