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Old 09-23-2009, 12:17 AM   post #1 of 11
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Default Honda GX670-TDW 24 HP replacement engine

Has anyone put one of these in their Ingersoll or Case tractors? I am considering selling my 16 HP Briggs (529 hours) and replacing it with this for the power rating.

I want to hear about the difference in performance and the tricks to the install. I do not have a hold in my hood for exhaust. Thanks!
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Old 09-23-2009, 12:31 AM   post #2 of 11
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Default Re: Honda GX670-TDW 24 HP replacement engine

There will be difference in performance unless you change the pump, valves, piping, and motor to larger sizes. The existing pump volume, pump rpm limit, and pressure setting limits the HP transmitted to the motor/wheels to what you currently have. An additional 8 HP to the mower blades will not be utilized or needed either (unless you want to build a custom 6-7 foot wide mower deck).

If you want to build a souped-up pulling tractor, get a Bolens tube frame with the manual transmission.
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Old 09-23-2009, 08:35 AM   post #3 of 11
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Default Re: Honda GX670-TDW 24 HP replacement engine

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Originally Posted by Level 2 View Post
Has anyone put one of these in their Ingersoll or Case tractors? I am considering selling my 16 HP Briggs (529 hours) and replacing it with this for the power rating.

I want to hear about the difference in performance and the tricks to the install. I do not have a hold in my hood for exhaust. Thanks!
What is it that you want to do with this tractor that makes you feel this swap is necessary. Details please.
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Old 09-23-2009, 12:53 PM   post #4 of 11
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Default Re: Honda GX670-TDW 24 HP replacement engine

I am guessing that you want to re-power the 4016. The B&S Vanguard has more than enough power for anything you can attach to it. If it had a Onan P-216 it would have more torque than the B&S but use more fuel. The Honda is a great engine but I don't think you will utilize the extra 8 HP. so it will be for nought. Also, plan on adjusting the valves regularly on the Honda or you will have problems. JMO
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Old 09-23-2009, 01:53 PM   post #5 of 11
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Default Re: Honda GX670-TDW 24 HP replacement engine

Here is the Torque output for the Gx-670. Note it is in N/M. 33FP
http://www.honda-engines.com/engines/gx670.htm
Torque output for the Vanguard 16. About 22 FP.http://www.jimsrepairjimstractors.com/torque-specs.htm

If a Kohler Command would fit, a 18 hp puts out the same Torque as the 24 hp honda.

Walter
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Old 09-24-2009, 12:59 AM   post #6 of 11
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Default Re: Honda GX670-TDW 24 HP replacement engine

I bought my cousins 448 when he bought a 4020 AHD (I believe they're called) that he repowered with a Honda, (in fact I have the old 20hp Onan).

He recently told me he may put it up for sale and that he believes the 448 is a much better machine, but that Honda most certainly will hurt its resale value.
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Old 09-24-2009, 07:42 AM   post #7 of 11
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Default Re: Honda GX670-TDW 24 HP replacement engine

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Originally Posted by Quixote2 View Post
There will be difference in performance unless you change the pump, valves, piping, and motor to larger sizes. The existing pump volume, pump rpm limit, and pressure setting limits the HP transmitted to the motor/wheels to what you currently have. An additional 8 HP to the mower blades will not be utilized or needed either (unless you want to build a custom 6-7 foot wide mower deck).

If you want to build a souped-up pulling tractor, get a Bolens tube frame with the manual transmission.
Did you mean to say there WONT be a difference? I am looking for more torque to pull the rake and tiller without revving the snot out of the engine all day...
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Ingersoll 4020PS Serial 14184194

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Old 09-24-2009, 07:46 AM   post #8 of 11
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Default Re: Honda GX670-TDW 24 HP replacement engine

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Originally Posted by Caseguytoo View Post
What is it that you want to do with this tractor that makes you feel this swap is necessary. Details please.
Caseguy; I want to have more consistant pulling power when pulling implements. I am raking now, and am looking to get a tiller soon, and a box cutter next spring for my 300 feet of gravel road and driveway. Springtime driveway clean up is big in Vermont
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Ingersoll 4020PS Serial 14184194

I spent my childhood keeping Pop's Case Tractor running, 35 years later I now own 3... GO FIGURE
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Old 09-24-2009, 07:54 AM   post #9 of 11
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Default Re: Honda GX670-TDW 24 HP replacement engine

Ok thank you gentlemen. The whole concept behind this is that I know have a clean 1997 machine that doesn't need paint, has a solid frame with no welds and I want to keep it a while.

The only reason I would ever sell this is for a 4200 series now.

In the torque department, it was a step down from my 87 448 (Lynmar engine) and I'd rather go 'new' with an engine and keep it going a while.

I already put my AG tires on it and while it is so nice and quiet, smooth and even my friend's 5 year old can start it cold, I do notice a difference in that pulling power. So I thought I would ask around. You guys are great, and this forum is the best!
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Ingersoll 448 Serial 14062821
Ingersoll 4016 Serial 14190385
Ingersoll 4020PS Serial 14184194

I spent my childhood keeping Pop's Case Tractor running, 35 years later I now own 3... GO FIGURE

Last edited by Level 2; 09-24-2009 at 07:56 AM. Reason: misspelled words
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Old 09-24-2009, 08:33 AM   post #10 of 11
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Default Re: Honda GX670-TDW 24 HP replacement engine

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The whole concept behind this is that I know have a clean 1997 machine that doesn't need paint, has a solid frame with no welds and I want to keep it a while.
The proposed engine swap will make NO difference in pulling power and little, if any, noticeable improvement with the mower or snowcaster. At less than 600 hrs, the engine is just getting broken in and probably has 30 years of average use left before needing a rebuild.

If you told me that the engine was in bad shape and you couldn't/don't want to rebuild it then my suggestion would be to drop in a new Briggs--cheaper and easier plus it would maintain or increase the resale value.

A skilled friend of mine did a very professional Honda repower and tried to sell it but had NO interested buyers so he ended up parting out the tractor.

I'm not trying to talk you out of a project if that's something you enjoy as a challenge but there is no upside to what you're proposing. Better to buy a tractor with a bad engine for a couple hundred dollars and do the repower on that then sell the one you have.
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Old 09-24-2009, 12:16 PM   post #11 of 11
Caseguytoo
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Default Re: Honda GX670-TDW 24 HP replacement engine

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Did you mean to say there WONT be a difference? I am looking for more torque to pull the rake and tiller without revving the snot out of the engine all day...
Here's some food for thought.

The industry standard for OPE engines is 3600 RPM. In other words, Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Onan, Wisconsin, Briggs and Stratton, Robin, Tecumseh, Kohler and others ..... all set the governors to maintain 3600 RPM at wide open throttle (WOT). In addition, the camshaft, carbureation and ignition timing are all designed to produce the maximum engine torque just below this RPM.

Implements that spin (tillers, mower decks, snow blowers etc) are designed to perform at their peak efficiency when the engine is running at WOT. Case and Ingersoll tractors use a hydraulic pump to power many implements. Once again, if you want the max from these attachments, then you have to feed them enough hydraulic oil to make them spin up to their design speed and that only happens when the engine is running at WOT.

The hydraulic system will only produce X amount of HP and X amount of torque regardless of the size and hp rating of the engine powering the pump. Many people feel that the max hp any engine can make the Case hydraulic system produce is 12 hp.

Quixote2 told you in his post that if you wanted more hydraulic hp, then you would have to redesign the whole system and he's right. Now if it's engine RPM that bothers you, then find and install an engine that produces 16 hp at 1800 RPM. That way, you can set it run only at speeds up to 1800 (half-throttle) but with it powering a 20 GPM pump, you will still get sufficient flow to run attachments.

Will you have more torque at the wheels? Nope. But the engine will be quieter. The problem with that scenario is that you would have to change the pulley sizes for belt-driven equipment if you wanted to use them a tractor with an 1800 RPM engine.

And you thought it would be easy..... yes?
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