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Old 03-10-2009, 09:14 AM   post #1 of 19
wally2q
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Default Winch Installation

Has anyone installed an electric winch on a 2305?....

I'm looking for installation ideas that worked really well..... or installation problems to avoid / keep an eye on / lessons learned....

I have a winch and was thinking of installing it on the back of the tractor, since getting stuck usually happens when going forward (drive into trouble)... that way I can drag the tractor "back" out of trouble... But perhaps that's not the best idea....

let me know what you all think....

cheers!

P.S.: pictures would be great... thanks!
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Old 03-10-2009, 03:12 PM   post #2 of 19
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Default Re: Winch Installation

I know nothing of your specific tractor, but from a "former life" and some off-road experience, I'd try to get away from electric winches. any effective electric winch draws a lot of juice, and most tractors are a pretty deficient in the charging system, some options to consider

there exist (in the US) winches similar to their electric counterparts that operate instead on what might be compared to "power steering" class pumps." Seems to me that you could do the same thing in some circumstances with a small PTO winch---convert to hydraulic


Another thought would be to add a big alternator, say 80A at least, for more power. In my old Landcruiser, I had the ever popular Warn 8000 lb electric, and scored a mid--80's Chrysler 105A big frame alternator. Even that and two big batteries wasn't really more than just adequate for a "long hard" pull. You would run around after that for hours with the belts griping and the ammeter (100A) buried on the peg. The big Warn's if given enough battery and cable can draw over 500A on a hard pull
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:15 AM   post #3 of 19
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Default Re: Winch Installation

So the winch is rated for 2000 lbs, and comes with a pulley force-doubler attachment (4000 lbs).

The tractor weighs around 2000 lbs, but I have no intention of "hoisting" the tractor into the air.

I contemplated hooking up a diode-isolated 2'nd battery, but I'll have to see about that. There is certainly no intention of running the winch off the alternator. This winch will probably see use 1 or 2 times per year.

Last fall I got the tractor stuck while building a trail and cleaning out a muddy creek-side in order to build a small bridge over the creek. I used the bucket to push myself out, but by doing so I wrecked my trench clearing effort. The tractor was not sunk into the mud too deep (maybe 6-8 inches on the front wheels - no depth on the rears). It was just so sticky and slippery, even the R4's could not provide sufficient traction (4wd + diff lock) to ride out - it was up hill a bit. If I had the winch, the extraction effort would have taken 2-3 minutes.

So I picked up the winch for $40, and I'm thinking even if it helps only 1 time, it will be 1 less time for me to fight with an extraction.
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Old 03-19-2009, 02:53 PM   post #4 of 19
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Default Re: Winch Installation

wally2q-- maybe something like this would work for you. I bought this winch at Northern Equipment during the Thanksgiving sale, paid $50. I bought a small hitch bar that fits the 1-1/4" receiver that is built in to the front of my X748 J-D. I found a welder to make a mount that is welded to the hitch bar, and I bolted the winch and fairlead to the mount. He only charged me $35 to make the thing. Along with the fairlead (which I also got at Northern Equipment), I have $145 in the whole thing. I can put the winch in front or in back, as I added a receiver to the drawbar. I modified the control cable for the winch with spade terminals so I could disconnect the control if I wasn't using the winch but wanted to leave it mounted. I've used it a couple of times to drag logs from out of a tight spot. Leave the engine at half throttle or better and you shouldn't have too much problem with battery drain. Doubling the line pull is a good idea, using a snatch block. The eye in the hitch bar is a good place to hook the winch cable. It all comes off if it's in the way for something else you need to mount.
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Old 03-19-2009, 03:39 PM   post #5 of 19
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Default Re: Winch Installation

I was also thinking about this set up for my 2305. The idea of being able to remove it when not in use is great. Thanks for the information guy's!
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Old 03-19-2009, 10:34 PM   post #6 of 19
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Default Re: Winch Installation

KHodges - that's an awesome idea. I already have a 2" hitch kit bolted onto the hitch plate - currently I have a receiver with a ball on it. So all I need is an extra receiver that I would mount the winch onto. I checked the winch documentation - it only draws 27A at full torque. I'll have no problem wiring in a connector on the back (I already have another auxillary connector for my other atachments - sprayer etc.)
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Old 03-21-2009, 04:13 AM   post #7 of 19
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Default How much Winch do you need?

Recommended winch capacity over vehicle weight. Typically manufacturers and resellers will suggest you should calculate the winch rating by taking the gross vehicle weight and multiplying it by 1.5 and that would be your minimum winch size. But this minimum rating is just that, a minimum. Certain factors can quickly cause your winch capacity to be exceeded so you need to think about your intended usage. Be aware that certain terrains and situations can put a much greater demand on a winch over the typical 1.5 multiplication rule of thumb. For instance a common cause for winching is mud. Mud however has an incredible suction force on a stuck vehicle and in many cases that 1.5 rule of thumb is far inadequate. Steep hills and frequent winching also put great demand on an electric winch. Understanding the purpose and safe use of winch accessories such as a snatch block can be invaluable when you need it most.
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Old 03-21-2009, 05:22 AM   post #8 of 19
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Default Re: Winch Installation

You can buy a basket for your winch that will slide into your reciver...
This is a warn 1600.500 lbs pull and sometimes its not enough ... I don't have trouble with batteries... It don't take long to pull your self out and the battery charges right back up...
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Old 03-21-2009, 10:24 AM   post #9 of 19
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Default Re: Winch Installation

I totally agree with Paul regarding winch capacity, and considerations for its use. Also remember that the whole system is no stronger than the weakest portion of that system. In my little arrangement for my 748 I showed above, the weakest link on mine would be either the pin that holds the receiver in place, or the bolts that hold the winch to the mount. Both, however, are rated for much more than the winch is capable of, even if I use a double line pull, which would give me 4000 pounds of pull, theoretically.

I only intend to use my winch for dragging logs, or getting myself up a slope with a load I couldn't otherwise pull due to traction issues, or other minor things. If I'm dumb enough to get my little tractor in a mudhole deep enough to sink her, I'll hire a tow truck to get it out. You're absolutely right about suction. I once did this with a Toyota Land Cruiser. It took two other vehicles with winches, plus three of us knee-deep in mud with shovels, to get it out of the bog.
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Old 03-22-2009, 12:29 AM   post #10 of 19
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Default Re: Winch Installation

All are good recommendations. Thank you.

One thing to consider is that I am not planning of putting myself in situations where I sink my tractor in mud up to the foot platform before attempting to pull it out. So the mud suction mentioned, would not be that significant (and I'm quite familiar with it - used to go 4-wheeling in a modified cherokee back in the day). Installing a 3000 lb winch on a 2000 lb tractor, and then using it once per year (if that) is probably not justifiable. I am not looking for bragging rights here (I'll save that for other attachments and toys) LOL.

Most folks would recommend a hand-operated winch for such rare cases. I would agree... but for $50 I'm going to make this thing work. I already have another block, so technically I can set-up a 3:1 pulley in 30 seconds. With that set-up, I can lift my tractor and my car (at the same time), clear off the ground (albeit very slowly).

The electric winch in in a response to a situation I experienced last fall, where the front wheel was 6-8" deep in mud and the rear wheels had insufficient traction (moist but compacted soil) to pull me out (up a moderate slope). Rear wheels were just spinning - sliding - not biting in at all. The winch would have saved the day.

cheers!
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Old 03-22-2009, 06:38 AM   post #11 of 19
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Default Re: Winch Installation

A cheap way to get to most pull for your buck is to buy a good hand boat winch and put a starter motor on it...
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Old 03-22-2009, 06:56 AM   post #12 of 19
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Default Re: Winch Installation

wally2q,

I know its for emergencies, but keep in mind that the 2305 battery is very small relative to what most winches are designed to work with and the alternator is only 20A.

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Old 03-22-2009, 08:39 AM   post #13 of 19
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Default Re: Winch Installation

What you're planning will work. It's a helper winch. With the wheels doing some of the work it'll do what you need. My 4000lbs Cherokee used a 4500 super winch for a long time.

Keep in mind that winches are rated at the first wind on the spool. Each layer of cable after that decreases the pulling power.

Even with 3:1 using pulleys it will not lift more weight at a slower rate, it'll snap the cable quicker. I believe your winch has 5/16" cable. A snapping cable can cut you in half. Be carefull and always put a towel or some sort of weight(shirt/coat) on the loaded cable so it drops to the ground if it breaks.
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Old 04-08-2009, 10:12 PM   post #14 of 19
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Default Re: Winch Installation

So I was kicking around the idea of a 2" receiver type installation - thinking about mounting the fair-lead, etc...but then a week later, I saw exactly that sort of winch for sale for $70. 2000 lbs, with a bracket that goes over a hitch ball, or can be bolted to a receiver. The cable is 1/4" by the way.

Even with 3:1 using pulleys it will not lift more weight at a slower rate, it'll snap the cable quicker.
That's not quite correct.
In a pulley arrangement, in fact there are 2 or 3 cables pulling each with theoretically the same force (less friction losses in the pulley or block). So when you double up, you have 2 cables pulling you, at 1/2 the speed, and 2x the force (combined). 3:1 gives you 1/3 the speed, and 3x the force. Each of the 3 cables in a 3:1 carries the same net force it would in a direct 1:1 set-up. It's simple physics.

Yes - I am aware of the 1'st wind of the spool rating... this winch seems pretty good in that it is up at 1600 lbs on the 4'th wind.

This is a portable set-up, but I permanently installed the wires through the tractor over to the battery, leaving a connector at the back.

I'll take some pics this weekend, try it out in the bush out back and let you know how it worked out....

cheers!
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Old 04-09-2009, 03:50 PM   post #15 of 19
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Default Re: Winch Installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by wally2q View Post

Even with 3:1 using pulleys it will not lift more weight at a slower rate, it'll snap the cable quicker.
That's not quite correct.
Well, it is and it isn't. Doubling or tripling the line using pulleys WILL increase the pulling capacity of the winch, but the ultimate determinant of the load the winch will pull is determined by the strength of the cable.

Say you have a 2000 lb winch, using cable rated for 3000 lb tensile strength. On a single line pull, the cable is stronger than anything the winch will pull.

Now, add a snatch block, which now gives you a double line, and you have a pulling CAPABILITY of 4000 pounds due to the mechanical advantage of the pulley. BUT the cable is still only rated for 3000 lbs, and doubling the line does not double the strength of the cable.

It would be correct to say that at 2:1, the winch is capable of pulling twice the weight at half the speed (or at 3:1 is capable of pulling 3x the weight at 1/3 the speed), but the cable must be increased in size as well to handle the extra load.
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