Checking out a Front End Loader for Garden Tractors - Page 3 - MyTractorForum.com - The Friendliest Tractor Forum and Best Place for Tractor Information
Register Home FAQ Garage MTF Gallery Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Store Chat Room

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-09-2009, 02:15 PM   #31
bamataco
Senior MTF Member
 
bamataco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Rio Rancho,N.M.
Posts: 519
MTF Member # 7458
Images: 2
Default Re: Checking out a Front End Loader for Garden Tractors

Quote:
Originally Posted by farmer_giff View Post
I think it is good to see more competition entering the LT/GT loader market. It ultimately drives innovation and lowers cost... both a big plus!

I absolutely agree.
bamataco is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 07-09-2009, 10:21 PM   #32
tiger9297
Senior MTF Member
 
tiger9297's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 141
MTF Member # 10594
Images: 3
Default Re: Checking out a Front End Loader for Garden Tractors

Here is an outfit that sells plans for loaders. Yes, I realize you have to build it yourself, but it is a good comparison when you notice the difference in how it's built. There is simply no comparison b/t the two. Of course the PF Engineering loader is for GARDEN tractors, not lawn mowers.
http://www.loaderplans.com/home.php
tiger9297 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-16-2009, 11:55 PM   #33
nglauer
Proud Member of the 1K Club
 
nglauer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: ohio
Posts: 1,096
MTF Member # 15243
Default Re: Checking out a Front End Loader for Garden Tractors

I think this is a great idea. The loader looks very well built for its intended purpose. I believe those who are commenting negatively, are the ones who would probably over work a unit like this to the degree that it would break stuff. Perhaps he has done a subframe? you can't tell by the pictures. As for the front axle, most have cast iron correct? Any home owner who could bolt this on, plug it in.. surely could find a way to counter issues with the front axles.. they a problem occurred.

I think this would be great for many applications. I wish Kellyproducts luck in designing and creating additional implements in the future.

Nick
__________________
Current Equipment..
Bolens HT23
Cub Cadet 154 loboy


Past Equipment..
Cub Cadet 2072 SGT
Cub Cadet 1811,128

Misc. Attachments:
Bolens Large Frame Tiller
Bolens Large Frame 54" hydraulic blade
Bolens Large Frame Snowblower
Bolens 54" Mower Deck

Tractors are a drug... and I am starting to become a user....
nglauer is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-17-2009, 10:22 AM   #34
Caseguytoo
Banned!
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: no state
Posts: 4,744
MTF Member # 7029
Default Re: Checking out a Front End Loader for Garden Tractors

Quote:
Originally Posted by nglauer View Post
I think this is a great idea. The loader looks very well built for its intended purpose. I believe those who are commenting negatively, are the ones who would probably over work a unit like this to the degree that it would break stuff. Perhaps he has done a subframe? you can't tell by the pictures. As for the front axle, most have cast iron correct? Any home owner who could bolt this on, plug it in.. surely could find a way to counter issues with the front axles.. they a problem occurred.

I think this would be great for many applications. I wish Kellyproducts luck in designing and creating additional implements in the future.

Nick
Very few LT's come with a cast iron front axle and even a cast iron front axle is no guarantee against breakage. Manufacturer's make LAWN TRACTORS to cut the lawn. That's why they're called LAWN TRACTORS. The components that make up a lawn tractor are sized to the tasks the manufacturer had in mind. When someone such as kelley products comes along and builds an attachment that demands far more from a lawn tractor's components than the manufacturer designed them to take, then that's when things get bent, twisted, cracked and snapped in two.

Do you think that kelley products cares if this happens? I don't think so. He got his money for his loader. What happens after that becomes your problem. One of the most debated issues on the forums has to do with the make and model of the trans-axles used in LT's and YT's. Many of these light duty hydro units are not repairable. In fact, most of them have no facility for draining the oil and replacing it with new oil.

Those are called "throw-away trans-axles". You use them until they break and then install a complete new one. With proper care, you should get ten years out of one but many owners have ended up with broken trans-axles a lot sooner than ten years. All this FEL does is hasten the demise of the trans-axle because the tractor now has the added weight of the FEL and when the owner realizes he has no traction, he will have to add a substantial counterweight to offset the loader's weight. Not only does the trans-axle now have to move all this extra weight but it will be tested to the limit every time the bucket is pushed into a pile of gravel or dirt.

Even worse, kelley products shows the FEL with bucket teeth, indicating that the FEL can be used to excavate. Here's a bulletin for you. FEL's are not an excavator. FEL's are designed to pick up loose piles of material and either place them into a vehicle or move that material to another location as a lift and carry tool. If you need an "excavator", then get a backhoe or a skid-steer. Those machines are purpose-built for excavating virgin material.

But all you guys that think this unit is the cat's-*** are welcome to buy it because it won't be my wallet that suddenly gets thinner when things begin to go wrong with your stamped, sheet metal LT that is full of light duty components.
Caseguytoo is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-17-2009, 11:15 AM   #35
simplicityguy92
Senior MTF Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: bc
Posts: 558
MTF Member # 11189
Default Re: Checking out a Front End Loader for Garden Tractors

i think if some one took it easy with the loader it would be fine
simplicityguy92 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-17-2009, 11:19 AM   #36
defcondaze
Banned!
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ny
Posts: 628
MTF Member # 11901
Default Re: Checking out a Front End Loader for Garden Tractors

im getin one for my lawn mower !



defcondaze is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-17-2009, 11:49 AM   #37
Caseguytoo
Banned!
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: no state
Posts: 4,744
MTF Member # 7029
Default Re: Checking out a Front End Loader for Garden Tractors

Quote:
Originally Posted by simplicityguy92 View Post
i think if some one took it easy with the loader it would be fine
How does one go about "taking it easy"?

A loader is supposed to penetrate whatever you want to pick up. Whether it's crushed gravel, topsoil, manure, sand or mulch; every one of those items require the tractor to push into them. The very second you start tilting the bucket or lifting the loader, you are adding weight on the front side of the front axle and that takes weight off the back axle where it's needed for traction to push into the pile.

The only way to compensate for this loss of traction is to use counterweights, wheel weights and loaded Ag tread tires. Once all of those are in place to restore traction, then the hydro has no choice but to either push the tractor's bucket into the pile or break internally. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. A tractor is either capable of FEL work or it isn't. If it was OK for LT's and YT's to have FEL's on them, then all the manufacturer's would offer a FEL.

Show me a single manufacturer that offers a FEL for a true LT or YT.
Caseguytoo is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-17-2009, 01:08 PM   #38
earth
Proud Member of the 1K Club
 
earth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 1,115
MTF Member # 10477
Default Re: Checking out a Front End Loader for Garden Tractors

I've had some experience with GT's and also in fitting and using FEL on them. I had a Craftsman DGS 6500 with the Crafstman front scoop, then I upgraded that with linear actuators, then I went with the Johnny Bucket. Now I have sold all of that and gone back in time to using Sears Suburbans. Some great friends at the workshop are helping me build a robust FEL for the Suburbans. I need the small size of the GT's around my property but with full size farm tractor capabilities - on a small scale. Anyway, my point is that the FEL on this thread seems very reasonable to me. My mistake was never the quality of the product I was using, but my lack of understanding what I really needed for equipment. The FEL on this site looks great, just be real about what you intend to do with it and you'd have a great machine for work around your house.
__________________
MAN'S PRAYER --
I'm a man...But I can change...If I have to...I guess.

If all else fails, use duct tape.
earth is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-17-2009, 01:57 PM   #39
Caseguytoo
Banned!
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: no state
Posts: 4,744
MTF Member # 7029
Default Re: Checking out a Front End Loader for Garden Tractors

Quote:
Originally Posted by earth View Post
I've had some experience with GT's and also in fitting and using FEL on them. I had a Craftsman DGS 6500 with the Crafstman front scoop, then I upgraded that with linear actuators, then I went with the Johnny Bucket. Now I have sold all of that and gone back in time to using Sears Suburbans. Some great friends at the workshop are helping me build a robust FEL for the Suburbans. I need the small size of the GT's around my property but with full size farm tractor capabilities - on a small scale. Anyway, my point is that the FEL on this thread seems very reasonable to me. My mistake was never the quality of the product I was using, but my lack of understanding what I really needed for equipment. The FEL on this site looks great, just be real about what you intend to do with it and you'd have a great machine for work around your house.
The issue here is whether any FEL should be put on a LT or YT. Your post speaks of GT's. Many manufacturers make FEL's available for their GT's because the GT is strong enough to withstand FEL usage.
Caseguytoo is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-17-2009, 04:23 PM   #40
LPBOLENS
Nine Year Site Sponsor
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: North Central Illinois
Posts: 2,669
MTF Member # 857
Default Re: Checking out a Front End Loader for Garden Tractors

Now that I have passed the big "60", a product for an LT that would serve as a convenient wheelbarrow and shovel would work pretty well for me. After all, my LT says it can handle an OEM snowblower or an OEM dozer blade (MTD Troy-Bilt).

You would just have to be careful about the weight that you were trying to pick up. The only thing I don't understand about the Kellyproducts set-up is why the mount seems so far forward, and the bucket is so far in front of the machine.

Of course, it is often the front spindles that cannot take the strain of the additional weight an FEL can manage.

Doug
LPBOLENS is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-17-2009, 04:59 PM   #41
Ken in NJ
.
 
Ken in NJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: .
Posts: 21,767
MTF Member # 284
Default Re: Checking out a Front End Loader for Garden Tractors

Quote:
Originally Posted by LPBOLENS View Post
Now that I have passed the big "60", a product for an LT that would serve as a convenient wheelbarrow and shovel would work pretty well for me. After all, my LT says it can handle an OEM snowblower or an OEM dozer blade (MTD Troy-Bilt).

You would just have to be careful about the weight that you were trying to pick up. The only thing I don't understand about the Kellyproducts set-up is why the mount seems so far forward, and the bucket is so far in front of the machine.

Of course, it is often the front spindles that cannot take the strain of the additional weight an FEL can manage.

Doug


That bucket is WAY out there .. I can only imagine the stress that is on the front axles and wheels with even a small load of soil.

My HT-23 with a HEAVY cast front axle even strains with my Johnson loader on it .. and my bucket is no where near that far away from the front axle
Ken in NJ is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-17-2009, 06:44 PM   #42
earth
Proud Member of the 1K Club
 
earth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 1,115
MTF Member # 10477
Default Re: Checking out a Front End Loader for Garden Tractors

Since I stuck my foot-in-mouth, then why stop now? I somehow missed that the question was if a LT mower could have a FEL on it. And I say nope. Not a good idea.
__________________
MAN'S PRAYER --
I'm a man...But I can change...If I have to...I guess.

If all else fails, use duct tape.
earth is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-18-2009, 06:49 AM   #43
dgoyette
Senior MTF Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Maine
Posts: 901
MTF Member # 19347
Default Re: Checking out a Front End Loader for Garden Tractors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caseguytoo View Post
The issue here is whether any FEL should be put on a LT or YT. Your post speaks of GT's. Many manufacturers make FEL's available for their GT's because the GT is strong enough to withstand FEL usage.
I would respectfully say that the post was not about an LT. It was about a GT3000 until you brought up LT's. I agree an FEL does not belong on an LT and would advise against it as well.

Looks like he only recommends for GT on the Craftsman line but does put one on the JD 100 series. I think they have the k46 which is not rated by TT for his type of work. It's a lawn tractor and I wouldn't try to make it anything other than that just like Caseguytoo says. But for a GT maybe... Need more info and exposure to the product to know IMO.
dgoyette is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-18-2009, 07:28 AM   #44
Caseguytoo
Banned!
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: no state
Posts: 4,744
MTF Member # 7029
Default Re: Checking out a Front End Loader for Garden Tractors

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgoyette View Post
I would respectfully say that the post was not about an LT. It was about a GT3000 until you brought up LT's. I agree an FEL does not belong on an LT and would advise against it as well.

Looks like he only recommends for GT on the Craftsman line but does put one on the JD 100 series. I think they have the k46 which is not rated by TT for his type of work. It's a lawn tractor and I wouldn't try to make it anything other than that just like Caseguytoo says. But for a GT maybe... Need more info and exposure to the product to know IMO.
Let's set the record straight.

You are correct in your statement that the thread itself began with a discussion about this loader being used on a GT. However.... the OP provided a link in his initial post that took readers to the Kelly Products site. The very first words on that site say:

"Front end loader attachment that fits most John deere, Craftsman, Cub Cadet, Husqvarna, Snapper, and many other riding lawn mowers."

Directly below are photos of a John Deere L130 LAWN TRACTOR. The video provided by Kelly Products shows the FEL on that same LAWN TRACTOR. If Kelly Products intended these loaders to be used only on garden tractors, then everything about his site certainly does not support that contention.

On another page, the site states:

"The Kelly Loader is designed to fit John Deere 100 series, X300, and 400 series tractors. Also Craftsman, Snapper, Cub Cadet and most medium to large size mowers. Also ask about other products coming soon."

Those words leave little doubt that Kelly Products is targeting LAWN TRACTORS and YARD TRACTORS.

Keep in mind that every single day, there are hundreds of lurkers that come to MTF and read threads. What we discuss here often affects their buying decisions. I take what I write very seriously and would never knowingly post information that would mislead someone. I would also never advise someone to buy a product that I feel would compromise their warranty initially and then shorten the lifespan of their tractor. In my opinion, this FEL falls into both categories if used on any brand of LT or YT.

If someone has a GT and wants to put it on, then by all means.... go right ahead. The manufacturer of your GT has allegedly designed it for ground engaging duty or he shouldn't be calling it a Garden Tractor. If it breaks, then at least you have a sporting chance of duking it out with the manufacturer over warranty because he labelled his tractor as a GT. If you put one of these FEL's on a LT or YT and something goes wrong, you stand zero chance with the manufacturer because he'll tell you that your LT or YT was never made for FEL service.
Caseguytoo is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 07-18-2009, 07:50 AM   #45
dgoyette
Senior MTF Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Maine
Posts: 901
MTF Member # 19347
Default Re: Checking out a Front End Loader for Garden Tractors

not sure what is different about your post but in case it is not clear that we share the same opinion.

Simplify

LT = NO
GT = Yes

Relax...different people...different needs...now relax again... and don't be such a control freak about your opinion. It has been heard loud and clear already.
dgoyette is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the MyTractorForum.com - The Friendliest Tractor Forum and Best Place for Tractor Information forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:19 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.
Compact Tractor Reviews Tractor Reviews Snowblowers Lawn Mower Forum
My Tractor Forum Snow Thrower Power Equipment Forum
Combine Forum Snowblower Forum ATV and UTV Reviews