Toro Commercial 22040 walk behind (stumped!) - MyTractorForum.com - The Friendliest Tractor Forum and Best Place for Tractor Information
Register Home FAQ Garage MTF Gallery Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Store Chat Room

Walk Behind Mowers We all use them from time to time... no seats on them.. but they get the job done!!!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-11-2007, 11:42 PM   post #1 of 19
Bruceman
. . . . . . . . . . . .
 
Bruceman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,122
MTF Member # 28
Default Toro Commercial 22040 walk behind (stumped!)

Howdy. A neighbor down the hill brought by his Toro walkbehind (M#22040) for me to look at for a no-start problem. It has a 5.5hp Suzuki engine. He said it just wouldn't start one day, He also says it was always had proper mix gas in it.

I pulled the air cleaner and ran a nut back on the threads to hold the carb on. It has spark on the electrode side of the plug with no fuel restrictions to the carb (note:haven't rebuilt the carb yet). I checked the safety cut-off switch, it's good, but this bad boy won't even try to fire with the aid of starting fluid.

Any help y'all can give would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you kindly, Bruce~
Bruceman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-12-2007, 12:11 AM   post #2 of 19
tarheelman
2-cycle Lawn-Boy wacko
 
tarheelman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kernersville, NC
Posts: 1,927
MTF Member # 1021
Images: 2
Default Re: Toro Commercial 22040 walk behind (stumped!)

Other than a carburetor problem, the only thing I can think of is a leaking crankshaft oil seal. Is there a lot of oil accumulating on the deck around the crankshaft opening and/or on the top (deck) side of the blade? If so, the lower seal is leaking.

To check the upper seal, you'll have to remove the flywheel and see if there's a lot of oil accumulating underneath the flywheel in the area around the crankshaft. As with the lower seal, a large accumulation of oil means that the seal is leaking.

Hope this helps.
__________________
"Lawn-Boy: Engineered for People as Well as Grass"
(1976)

"Lawn-Boy: As Time Goes By, You'll Know Why"
(early 1980s) (A personal favorite)

"Lawn-Boy: America's Long-Running Tradition"
(1988) (Another personal favorite)

"Lawn-Boy: Making Mowing Easier"
(late 1990s to early 2000s---the DuraForce era)
tarheelman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-12-2007, 12:27 AM   post #3 of 19
Bruceman
. . . . . . . . . . . .
 
Bruceman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,122
MTF Member # 28
Default Re: Toro Commercial 22040 walk behind (stumped!)

Wow! thanks for the quick reply. No oil leaks, however the inside of the air cleaner, behind the filter has a lot of dirt build-up. So, the engine has been eating dirt. I don't have any experience with repairing 2-cycle stuff, but even with a plugged carb and a an oil leak, shouldn't it at least fire-off with starting fluid, or am I just ignorant with these engines?

Thanks again, Bruce~
Bruceman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-12-2007, 12:31 AM   post #4 of 19
Shawnlb
Lawn-Boys and VW's
 
Shawnlb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Valparaiso, Indiana
Posts: 1,836
MTF Member # 3341
Images: 18
Default Re: Toro Commercial 22040 walk behind (stumped!)

I had a toro snowblower that had low compression and would not even pop with starting fluid. You would have to put some 2 stroke oil in the cylinder and slowly turn the engine to get it all around on the rings to get it started. Once it was hot it would start every time. I don't know if this is the case unless the flywheel key is sheired and the timing is off. From your post it has spark, and if it has spark it should pop on starting fluid. Just a thought. Good luck !!!!
__________________
10323 SilverPro E-DuraForce belt drive 2002
8020 D-400 capstan lower belt drive 1970
8250 D-400 capstan gear drive 1973
8035 F capstan gear drive 1986
5000 C-12 Iron Horse 1956
8F20 C-10 Iron Horse 1955
1116 C rototiller Hobbie Gardener 1962
1819 C Snow-Boy snowblower 1964
7261 D-600 1972 Engine 1977
1966 VW Beetle #1
1966 VW Beetle #2
1967 VW Beetle EMPI GTV
2000 VW New Beetle 2.0
1979 Kawasaki Invader 440

My YouTube Page
www.youtube.com/volkswagenvman
Shawnlb is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-12-2007, 01:13 AM   post #5 of 19
tarheelman
2-cycle Lawn-Boy wacko
 
tarheelman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kernersville, NC
Posts: 1,927
MTF Member # 1021
Images: 2
Default Re: Toro Commercial 22040 walk behind (stumped!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruceman View Post
Wow! thanks for the quick reply. No oil leaks, however the inside of the air cleaner, behind the filter has a lot of dirt build-up. So, the engine has been eating dirt. I don't have any experience with repairing 2-cycle stuff, but even with a plugged carb and a an oil leak, shouldn't it at least fire-off with starting fluid, or am I just ignorant with these engines?

Thanks again, Bruce~
Since there aren't any oil leaks, the seals are still good. However, Shawn pointed out something I hadn't thought of---a sheared flywheel key. If it isn't the carburetor, then that might be the problem.

To answer your question about the engine firing with a leaky oil seal, this depends on how bad the leak is. A small leak won't de-pressurize the crankcase enough to prevent the fuel and air charge from coming into the crankcase. However, a large leak will de-pressurize the crankcase so much that there isn't enough pressure to pull a fuel/air charge in from the carburetor.

Hope this helps.
__________________
"Lawn-Boy: Engineered for People as Well as Grass"
(1976)

"Lawn-Boy: As Time Goes By, You'll Know Why"
(early 1980s) (A personal favorite)

"Lawn-Boy: America's Long-Running Tradition"
(1988) (Another personal favorite)

"Lawn-Boy: Making Mowing Easier"
(late 1990s to early 2000s---the DuraForce era)
tarheelman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-12-2007, 09:28 AM   post #6 of 19
lawnboy dan
3K Poster!!!!
 
lawnboy dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: florida
Posts: 3,002
MTF Member # 670
Default Re: Toro Commercial 22040 walk behind (stumped!)

ok i have been using these engines for almost 20 years. the flywheel key in these is hard steel(strange i know) and is impossiable to shear with out obivious damage elsewhere (dent blade-cracked flywheel etc) the seals never seem to go bad either. it has to be low compression. these engines are extremly tough and have a very long life and other than abuse from incorrect mix -are almost impossiable to destroy. one weak point in this engine is the minkuni carb. look for throttle shaft wear. this can get so bad that the engine will run extremly lean due to sucking air past the worn throttle shaft-though i have never seen one not start from this. worn or broken piston rings is my prime suspect on this one
lawnboy dan is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-12-2007, 10:13 AM   post #7 of 19
echoman
2 stroke enthusiast
 
echoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: right here, on line
Posts: 6,406
MTF Member # 6344
Images: 1
Default Re: Toro Commercial 22040 walk behind (stumped!)

If anyone needs Suzuki parts, let me know. There is a guy about 10 miles East of me that has several complete engines or parts-all used of course.
echoman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-12-2007, 04:49 PM   post #8 of 19
Mowerman
Senior MTF Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Indiana
Posts: 911
MTF Member # 2691
Default Re: Toro Commercial 22040 walk behind (stumped!)

Bruceman, don't rule out a sheared flywheel key, you will still have spark on a CDI system. the key is aluminum also. BUT, you said there was alot of debris behind the air filter. I would check the compression first, before I tore into anything else. Tony
Mowerman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-12-2007, 06:22 PM   post #9 of 19
leeave96
Senior MTF Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: VA
Posts: 355
MTF Member # 5136
Default Re: Toro Commercial 22040 walk behind (stumped!)

My Dad has and has had Toro's with the Suzuki engine. From time to time, he will hit a rock or tree root. Engine dies, won't re-start. It is always the flywheel key.

Good luck,
Bill
leeave96 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-12-2007, 06:29 PM   post #10 of 19
Bill Kapaun
Circumflatulater
 
Bill Kapaun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Orygun
Posts: 3,868
MTF Member # 6264
Default Re: Toro Commercial 22040 walk behind (stumped!)

You can download an engine manual-
http://www.toro.com/home/index.html
Bill Kapaun is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-12-2007, 11:47 PM   post #11 of 19
Bruceman
. . . . . . . . . . . .
 
Bruceman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,122
MTF Member # 28
Default Re: Toro Commercial 22040 walk behind (stumped!)

Thanks everybody for the suggestions. I'll try tomorrow night and try to start it with oil in the cylinder, check for compression and pop the flywheel off.

You guys are great. I told my neighbor that I didn't know much about the 2 strokes but I know some guys that do, and that I would holler at 'em.

Bruce~
Bruceman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-05-2007, 11:41 PM   post #12 of 19
Bruceman
. . . . . . . . . . . .
 
Bruceman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,122
MTF Member # 28
Default Re: Toro Commercial 22040 walk behind (stumped!)

Hey! I almost forgot about this thread. Sorry. Anyway, I checked the compression, turned out to be about 54lbs. The manual calls of 120-130. So I check around and wouldn't you know it, this engine has been discontinued. Probably because of emissions, but just a guess. I called Toro, Suzuki, both mysmall engine supply houses and the largest small engine shop in the city. They can't even get me parts. I can however buy a replacement Kawasaki 6hp (FJ180V) for about $300.00. They offer a Honda replacement, but I was quoted four hundred for that one.

Anyway, I called the guy and told he has a paperweight.

Thanks again for everybody's help, Bruce~
Bruceman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-06-2007, 08:02 AM   post #13 of 19
lawnboy dan
3K Poster!!!!
 
lawnboy dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: florida
Posts: 3,002
MTF Member # 670
Default Re: Toro Commercial 22040 walk behind (stumped!)

well -looks like i was right after all.
lawnboy dan is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-06-2007, 01:13 PM   post #14 of 19
FordTech
The Sea of Green Machines
 
FordTech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Lawton, Oklahoma
Posts: 4,412
MTF Member # 1170
Images: 1
Default Re: Toro Commercial 22040 walk behind (stumped!)

A LOT of people fail to recognize the importance of a clean air filter. It is as important as a clean oil filter on a 4 stroke engine. Dirt and sand brought in from the intake can kill your engine but fast.
__________________
My Missing Michelle

Peace,Love, and understanding to all.... but dont step on my God given or citizen rights or my country or Ill be tuning up my 22261 on your head!

LBAD member 1170 30 miles north of Texas Red River State Line
Glad to help but my advice is just advice, Its free! "If that dont fix it, Something else will!"
FordTech is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 09-06-2007, 01:27 PM   post #15 of 19
Shawnlb
Lawn-Boys and VW's
 
Shawnlb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Valparaiso, Indiana
Posts: 1,836
MTF Member # 3341
Images: 18
Default Re: Toro Commercial 22040 walk behind (stumped!)

It may still run. Put some oil in the cylinder and try starting it up. I did that on my toro snowblower that my wifes ex ran with out oil. Use that thing like that for 2 years.
__________________
10323 SilverPro E-DuraForce belt drive 2002
8020 D-400 capstan lower belt drive 1970
8250 D-400 capstan gear drive 1973
8035 F capstan gear drive 1986
5000 C-12 Iron Horse 1956
8F20 C-10 Iron Horse 1955
1116 C rototiller Hobbie Gardener 1962
1819 C Snow-Boy snowblower 1964
7261 D-600 1972 Engine 1977
1966 VW Beetle #1
1966 VW Beetle #2
1967 VW Beetle EMPI GTV
2000 VW New Beetle 2.0
1979 Kawasaki Invader 440

My YouTube Page
www.youtube.com/volkswagenvman
Shawnlb is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the MyTractorForum.com - The Friendliest Tractor Forum and Best Place for Tractor Information forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:14 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.
Compact Tractor Reviews Tractor Reviews Snowblowers Lawn Mower Forum
My Tractor Forum Snow Thrower Power Equipment Forum
Combine Forum Snowblower Forum ATV and UTV Reviews