Deere Garden Tractor Loader Owners - Page 3 - MyTractorForum.com - The Friendliest Tractor Forum and Best Place for Tractor Information
Register Home FAQ Garage MTF Gallery Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Store Chat Room

John Deere Forum John Deere Garden Tractor talk

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-06-2013, 12:44 PM   post #31 of 45
VALurker
Senior MTF Member
 
VALurker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 533
MTF Member # 34235
Default Re: Deere Garden Tractor Loader Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by GotDeeres View Post
Bigger tractors just requires a bigger idiot to destroy them.


Compact Loader

Attachment 325377

That was not me that did that!!

GotDeeres
That was so it would fit in a "compact" parking space.
__________________
I guess I shouldn't have tried that at home!
VALurker is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-06-2013, 02:19 PM   post #32 of 45
summers5
Garden Tractor Lover!
 
summers5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 252
MTF Member # 29270
Default Re: Deere Garden Tractor Loader Owners

I to am interested in what he tried to do.The 45 loader I bought indeed is built tough.To do all that wow!
__________________
1997 Sears GT 18.5hp"Kohler Magnum"
SplitFire Plugs
46" Deck PTO
Electric hitch Kit(moves deck too)
Sears grader blade
Ag-Fab Spreader
46" 2 stage SnowBlower
Weights and chain
------------------
2005 JD X485 25hp(SOLD)
------------------
2008 Echo-SRM230 Trimmer 22.8cc
2010 Echo-PB500T Blower 50.8cc
------------------
John Deere 2007 X748SE
54" Edge Deck
3 Point(Ruegg)Hitch Cat1
54" 4way Blade
Yanmar 3TNV76 1116cc 24hp(Yep! same as JD2305)
John Deere 45 Loader
summers5 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-06-2013, 03:25 PM   post #33 of 45
GotDeeres
Just John Deere
 
GotDeeres's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Buford,Georgia
Posts: 297
MTF Member # 35846
Images: 8
Default Re: Deere Garden Tractor Loader Owners

Well it has been raining here all day so I did this to keep myself entertained. I recently repaired my 455 hydro and have reread the TM again.

The THRV only protects the FORWARD side of the hydro. It does not protect the Reverse direction. The THRV is installed in the forward closed loop from the hydraulic pump to the hydraulic drive motor. I guess that is why it did not protect the rest of the hydro. Since there were damaged loader cylinders, the IRV did not protect that loop.

My SWAG (Scientific Wild *** Guess) is that the guy picked up an excessive load in the bucket. He lifted it too high and suddenly dropped the bucket. The return fluid to the hydro is SUPPOSED to be "pressure free oil" per the tech manual. By dropping the loader bucket, you create a two cylinder one stroke pump. The return oil is now a high volume high pressure oil flow into the hydro. Apparently, it was high enough to damage something in the hydro. I always wondered why the return lines for some loaders had an in line restrictor on the return side. Now I think I know why.

Why did the loader cylinders fail? I could not find the specs for the cylinders, but the rockshaft cylinder is rated a 2000 psi. Let's just assume the loader cylinders have the same pressure rating. Dropping the loader bucket released the pressure in the cylinders, until the operator returned the SCV to neutral. The operator closed off any path for the oil in the cylinders to go. This happened just before the bucket hit the ground causing the remaining fluid in the cylinders to be pressurized by the falling weight in the bucket to a lot more that normal. This pressure is what damaged the cylinders. The IRV is out of the loop when the SCV is in the neutral position. So, it could not protect the cylinders. I believe you could do similar damage at 1000 psi with the right conditions.

Having said all of that, I cannot blame the shimmed IRV as the reason for the loader failure. Many owners have did this and I have not heard of this type of failure before. I expected it, but I am surprised it is not more common. Was it the cylinders or hydraulic hoses/lines? If the loader cylinders and hoses are rated for 2000 psi, the IRV being increased to 1250 psi should not be a problem. However, higher pressure may cause problems with the charge pump and other functions inside the hydro such as the lube oil and PTO. John Deere would definitely have the right to void the warranty on the hydro.

You ALWAYS want to carry the load in the bucket as low as possible or this could happen to you. Hills and loaders usually do not mix well. BTDT and have brown briefs to prove it.

Since this owner had a similar problem with a Kubota, I would say the failure was due to the operator not the equipment.

But that is just my opinion,

GotDeeres
__________________
Just John Deere
318 Garden Tractor
345 Garden Tractor with Piranah Deck
425 Garden Tractor with 54C Deck
455 Diesel Garden Tractor 3 Point and 540 PTO
455 Diesel with Buford Bucket Compact Loader
2210 CUT with Buford Bucket Compact Loader
John Deere TS Gator

Last edited by GotDeeres; 06-06-2013 at 05:23 PM.
GotDeeres is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-06-2013, 05:28 PM   post #34 of 45
Displaced Hokie
Senior MTF Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 540
MTF Member # 84156
Default Re: Deere Garden Tractor Loader Owners

Nah, the "hydraulic" pressure can't get to the "hydro" section, other than the priming oil provided by the charge pump. Return oil from the loader goes straight to the sump(case).


Sent from the MTF Free App
Displaced Hokie is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-06-2013, 06:36 PM   post #35 of 45
TUDOR
9000+ Strong & Climbing
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sault Ste Marie, Ontario
Posts: 11,384
MTF Member # 28463
Default Re: Deere Garden Tractor Loader Owners

Also, dropping the load like that puts the cylinder under negative pressure as it's going down since the pump flow can't fill the void fast enough. That might suck in some air through the gland, but it will still be restricted in rate of drop.
__________________
Bob

Click for The Hydraulics Forum!

Sometimes you get on a roll, sometimes the roll gets on you.

In Service
MF GC2310, Husqvarna YTH20B42T

Down for Repairs
MF1655 w/ FEL, MF1655, MF12H, MF8H, MF7H
Spending too much time on MTF to work on my toys.
TUDOR is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-07-2013, 11:18 AM   post #36 of 45
GotDeeres
Just John Deere
 
GotDeeres's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Buford,Georgia
Posts: 297
MTF Member # 35846
Images: 8
Default Re: Deere Garden Tractor Loader Owners

Tudor,

Like I said this was just a SWAG. You are correct about the negative pressure on one side, but since this is a dual action cylinder both chambers are closed with the SCV in neutral. Could the combination of the high positive pressure on one side and negative pressure on the other side damage the seals?? I really want to find out what was damaged in the cylinders or hoses.

Would you happen to know the PSI in the 455 hydraulic pump to the motor closed loop?? Seems like I read somewhere it was 1550 PSI. I repaired a hydro and checked the charge pump, but could not test the pump to motor loop. The TM does not address this issue. I know how I can test this pressure and just need to know what to expect.

Thanks,

GotDeeres
__________________
Just John Deere
318 Garden Tractor
345 Garden Tractor with Piranah Deck
425 Garden Tractor with 54C Deck
455 Diesel Garden Tractor 3 Point and 540 PTO
455 Diesel with Buford Bucket Compact Loader
2210 CUT with Buford Bucket Compact Loader
John Deere TS Gator

Last edited by GotDeeres; 06-07-2013 at 11:55 AM.
GotDeeres is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-07-2013, 01:25 PM   post #37 of 45
Displaced Hokie
Senior MTF Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 540
MTF Member # 84156
Default Re: Deere Garden Tractor Loader Owners

Charge pressure is regulated @300 psi. Anymore and it could try to drive the hydro.

PTO circuit pressures are regulated to @ 175 psi.

Hydro loop pressures can be upwards of 10,000 psi, but I think usually @ 5,000 psi on this trand. I know many CUTS go into relief at 10K. No relief valves on any L&G TUff Troq trans - except for the spike limiter for the X7's with loaders.

Outboard hydraulic pressures are capped at @ 1200 psi.


Sent from the MTF Free App
Displaced Hokie is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-07-2013, 01:34 PM   post #38 of 45
Displaced Hokie
Senior MTF Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 540
MTF Member # 84156
Default Re: Deere Garden Tractor Loader Owners

I don't think there are any high pressure hydro loop test ports on these. There are on CUTS.

There is a test you can do to test the general condition of a hydro though. It is a pump/motor internal leakage (I.e. rotator group wear):
- plumb into charge port. More pressure.
- load hydro by pushing against a pole, tryin to pull something, etc.
- if charge pressure holds or dips only a little, the hydro has little internal leakage and wear.
- if the charge pressure drops considerably, there is wear.

The theory at work here is the more hydro pump or motor wear you have, the more internal leakage, and the more oil the charge pump must provide to keep the system primed.

A poor mans test is do you lose steering or lift when under a hydro load? If so, same thing is happening. All the charge pump oil is going to the hydro loop with little left for the steering or lift.


Sent from the MTF Free App
Displaced Hokie is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-07-2013, 02:06 PM   post #39 of 45
Maverick74
Senior MTF Member
 
Maverick74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: MO
Posts: 481
MTF Member # 35894
Default Re: Deere Garden Tractor Loader Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Displaced Hokie View Post
Charge pressure is regulated @300 psi. No relief valves on any L&G TUff Troq trans - except for the spike limiter for the X7's with loaders.

Sent from the MTF Free App
My X748 has the relief valve for the loader but it does seem to stall out when you overload it. It will stop forward motion.

My X728 did not have the loader or the valve and it seemed to pull no matter what it was loaded with as I had a box blade on that tractor many times.
__________________
Previous:
2008 JD X728

1998 Cub Cadet 2185 48" MMM 42" Snow Plow...RIP

Current:
2012 John Deere X748SE
3pt hitch, Rear PTO, 7 Iron, 54 Snow Plow, 647 Tiller,
45 Loader, Agri-Fab Sweeper, Heavy Hitch,
Box Blade BB2048L
Maverick74 is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-07-2013, 03:09 PM   post #40 of 45
Sergeant
Tech Exchange Moderator
 
Sergeant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Kane County,IL
Posts: 10,909
MTF Member # 24
Default Re: Deere Garden Tractor Loader Owners

Well The reason I said Be careful with shimming your transaxle. Is shimming it You May try to Pick Up something You shouldn't. While the Loader May pick it Up You Might damage something else. Had the Guy Not shimmed it The Loader probably would Not Have even raised the Object Up more than a few Inches if at all and shimming beyond spec is Just a great way to Loose Deere covering the cost of any damage You might do to the transaxle( shim after Your warranty is Up) So Deere gets to use the fact that he shimmed it as a excuse not to cover the cost of the repair under warranty There still working out what Happened. But anyways they should be getting a New transaxle In today On there expedited order My Brother says they should Have it all Back to running condition by the Middle of next week ( The Owner is what we call up here a Gentleman Farmer He Buys the Machines But doesnít actually do any filed work) But went he does Do field work He usually does end up breaking something That is very costly to repair. As Far as My Brother Boss the Dealer. He Like the customer Because they Make a lot of Money on repairs :side laugh and the guy Pays Cash for everything He Just Bought a JD 9506R from them which Cost almost $400,000 at MSRP Before configuration and Yes He Has Damaged Big Machine of that size as well or so Iím Told
__________________
John Deere Models:X485,140H3,112,Sabre 1542
Cub Cadet Models:0riginal,70,106,2206 & Experimental Non Production Rear engine rider
Ingersoll Model:3016PS
Simplicity Models:Wonder Boy
White Model: GT2055

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke
Sergeant is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-07-2013, 03:20 PM   post #41 of 45
Yooper75
Deere addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 236
MTF Member # 71122
Default Re: Deere Garden Tractor Loader Owners

Sergeant, you've got my curiosity piqued now. How on earth do you break a 9560R? I've run some big equipment before and you have to really try to break something because they're so over engineered and built.
__________________
78 John Deere 312 Project: Work Horse
79 John Deere 317 Project: TBD
65 John Deere 110 Project: Show Queen
Yooper75 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-08-2013, 03:23 AM   post #42 of 45
Sergeant
Tech Exchange Moderator
 
Sergeant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Kane County,IL
Posts: 10,909
MTF Member # 24
Default Re: Deere Garden Tractor Loader Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yooper75 View Post
Sergeant, you've got my curiosity piqued now. How on earth do you break a 9560R? I've run some big equipment before and you have to really try to break something because they're so over engineered and built.
Well He Hasn't damaged the New JD 9506R Yet and I say Yet! It was a Tractor of that size I think It was a CASE/IH or a Ford Versatile
__________________
John Deere Models:X485,140H3,112,Sabre 1542
Cub Cadet Models:0riginal,70,106,2206 & Experimental Non Production Rear engine rider
Ingersoll Model:3016PS
Simplicity Models:Wonder Boy
White Model: GT2055

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke
Sergeant is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-08-2013, 06:59 AM   post #43 of 45
TUDOR
9000+ Strong & Climbing
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sault Ste Marie, Ontario
Posts: 11,384
MTF Member # 28463
Default Re: Deere Garden Tractor Loader Owners

Quote:
Originally Posted by GotDeeres View Post
Tudor,

Like I said this was just a SWAG. You are correct about the negative pressure on one side, but since this is a dual action cylinder both chambers are closed with the SCV in neutral. Could the combination of the high positive pressure on one side and negative pressure on the other side damage the seals?? I really want to find out what was damaged in the cylinders or hoses.

Would you happen to know the PSI in the 455 hydraulic pump to the motor closed loop?? Seems like I read somewhere it was 1550 PSI. I repaired a hydro and checked the charge pump, but could not test the pump to motor loop. The TM does not address this issue. I know how I can test this pressure and just need to know what to expect.

Thanks,

GotDeeres
A perfect vacuum is 0 psi. Atmospheric pressure is 14.7 psi. Negative pressure is betwen those 2 numbers. The seals are designed to withstand 2500 psi. I don't see them failing due to negative pressure.

Hydraulic hoses usually have their pressure rating printed on, or formed into, the abrasion protection (the rubber cover on the outside of the hose). Cylinders will sometimes have their pressure rating stamped into one end of the barrel. For FEL hydraulics, the minimum for both is 2500 psi, even for the old Johnson and KwikWay loaders. Somehow, I don't think that JD would derate their equipment below standards used by companies making loaders for light GTs 40 years ago and that are still in service today.

My guess is the damage to the cylinders came from other than hydraulic pressure. More like something broke from the heavy load and the cylinder rods, barrels, or the cross tubes suffered mechanical damage.

I searched, but couldn't find the necessary specs for the K92 pertaining to the pump/motor pressures, but I suspect that your thoughts are correct at 1550 psi, or at least in close proximity. For a Sundstrand Series 15, the rating for GT service is 1500 psi, and the peak rating is 4500 psi. A hydro capable of surviving even peak pressures of 10,000 psi woud be a very heavy piece of equipment. The traction conditions needed to produce 1500 psi at 3/4 thottle are difficult in the extreme to find for my 2400 lb GT. It usually spins its chained tires at lower pressures.

The only way that I can think of to test the pressures in a hydro in a heavy GT or SCUT involves tire chains, a large tree or other immovable object, and a low throttle setting.
__________________
Bob

Click for The Hydraulics Forum!

Sometimes you get on a roll, sometimes the roll gets on you.

In Service
MF GC2310, Husqvarna YTH20B42T

Down for Repairs
MF1655 w/ FEL, MF1655, MF12H, MF8H, MF7H
Spending too much time on MTF to work on my toys.
TUDOR is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-08-2013, 10:56 AM   post #44 of 45
antiqueetc
Proud Member of the 1K Club
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: OK
Posts: 1,152
MTF Member # 4758
Default Re: Deere Garden Tractor Loader Owners

In my research I found that the JD 455 (k91/2) Transaxle forward relief valve is set at around 3900 lbs.

I was looking because mine I think is set too low because it will stop moving without spinning the tires. This is with only 50lbs of weight on the ATV tires and climbing a really steep hill with only the deck and loader on it.

But, there are no test ports to confirm the settings. So, one of these days I'll just pull the fender pan and stick a shim in it and try it out. I sure don't want to overdo it, but would like more forward torque.
antiqueetc is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-08-2013, 09:59 PM   post #45 of 45
Displaced Hokie
Senior MTF Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 540
MTF Member # 84156
Default Re: Deere Garden Tractor Loader Owners

You can't shim the hydro relief valve (again, you only have one if you have a loader). Only the IRV for the external hydraulics can be shimmed.


Sent from the MTF Free App
Displaced Hokie is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the MyTractorForum.com - The Friendliest Tractor Forum and Best Place for Tractor Information forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:36 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.
Compact Tractor Reviews Tractor Reviews Snowblowers Lawn Mower Forum
My Tractor Forum Snow Thrower Power Equipment Forum
Combine Forum Snowblower Forum ATV and UTV Reviews