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Old 05-11-2012, 03:39 PM   post #1 of 14
WadmalawJoe
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Default Ford 3000 gas not running

Details;
I have had the tractor a couple years now. When I first bought it I had replaced, carb,coil, plugs, new points and probably a few other various items. It needed some tlc.
Anyways, I was bush hogging a field when I noticed it stumbling easily in the semi-thick spots and then started spitting and sputtering with no load. So I parked it and cleaned out my fuel filters. I have two clear glass fuel filters from the auto store, one within the first 6 inches of the tank and the other right before the carb. The first one by the tank is supposed to catch rust particles and such from the tank, the second is supposed to catch anything else it may have picked up travelling thru the fuel pump and so forth. With the new carb I wanted to keep it as clean as possible. I think I need a denser filter because fine debris still makes its way into the carb. So after putting my fuel filters back in place after cleaning them, the tractor won't start. So, I have cleaned out the carb, which had sediment in the bottom despite my dual filter system. Checked my plugs, they looked ok, cleaned them anyway and reinstalled them. The distributor had some carbon tracking so I cleaned up the contacts and so forth. Still no starting. I did the pop the clutch routine and it ran for about 10 seconds one time, the rest it would just sputter and do nothing.
Everything I have replaced is at least a year old now and I own a horse farm, so I use it at least once a week, sometimes 3-4 days a week.
Does anybody have any ideas?
I'm probably going to go back thru and reclean everything and try again. However, I am wondering about the coil, maybe it's not putting out any or enough spark. I will check that while I am at it. Just need fuel and spark right?
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3rd tractor 1966 Ford 3000 gas
2nd tractor Yanmar 2000 (hated it,sold it after 3 weeks)
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Old 05-20-2012, 05:26 PM   post #2 of 14
WadmalawJoe
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Default Re: Ford 3000 gas not running

Well, still not running.
I put new points, cap and plugs in.
Starter seems real weak, tried another battery still weak, also cleaned all the connections from the battery to the starter.
I had my son drag me around the yard and I would pop the clutch, nothing, I figured if weak starter was the problem, or if there was some other eletrical problem, popping the clutch would work. Yes, I had the key turned on.



Anyone with any ideas?
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3rd tractor 1966 Ford 3000 gas
2nd tractor Yanmar 2000 (hated it,sold it after 3 weeks)
1st tractor 1948 Ferguson TE-20 (loved it)
Non-tractor project a 1969 Chevy C-10

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Old 05-21-2012, 04:46 PM   post #3 of 14
donimbimbo
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Default Re: Ford 3000 gas not running

Two ideas.

One thing you did not mention is the ignition coil. Have you confirmed that healthy spark is present?

You said the starter seems "weak". There could be a separate problem with the brushes in the starter. If they are not making really good contact with the armature, the current will drop and it will sound weak.
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:42 PM   post #4 of 14
WadmalawJoe
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Default Re: Ford 3000 gas not running

Thanks, I am getting good spark off the coil and the plugs. I went out and double checked it this evening. I decided to take the starter off and take it with me tomorrow and get it tested. I have a really reliable and reasonable place to take it to. It even started smoking after cranking it some while I was checking the spark. I wasn't even really cranking that long.
Am I wrong about starting it by popping the clutch? I figured that would work regardless of starter condition.
Fuel, I could smell it especially while spark plug was out. I am fairly positive that its getting to the chamber. Fuel pump is also pushing it good to the carb as well.
I thought about putting a couple drops of fuel in each chamber and cranking it just to be certain, but with that weak starter.....

I will post my starter update tomorrow, if they can get right on it like they usually can.
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3rd tractor 1966 Ford 3000 gas
2nd tractor Yanmar 2000 (hated it,sold it after 3 weeks)
1st tractor 1948 Ferguson TE-20 (loved it)
Non-tractor project a 1969 Chevy C-10

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Old 05-22-2012, 08:14 AM   post #5 of 14
donimbimbo
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Default Re: Ford 3000 gas not running

Yep - fuel and spark is all it takes. If fuel was getting in the cylinders and spark was bad, the plugs should look wet or damp. If you think it's still a fuel problem then you may have to pull off the carb and blow out the passages. Spray a small amout of starter fluid in the air intake to prove this. If it trys to start then you still have a fuel problem.

The starter issue is separate.

I would also check the resistance of the primary side of the coil, with primary side disconnected. A digital ohm meter is usually the best way to do this. You should be reading somewhere around 2 - 4 ohms, assuming your tractor does not have an external resistor on the primary side of the coil.
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Old 05-22-2012, 09:16 PM   post #6 of 14
WadmalawJoe
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Default Re: Ford 3000 gas not running

Thanks again, I tried a little fuel in each chamber, I didn't know you could spray a little in the intake side of the carb and get the same effect without taking the plugs in and out quickly before fuel evaporates. What do you stick the straw inside the rubber boot and give it a shot of starter fluid?
Anyways, no action, apparently my good spark is not good enough to fire up the fuel.
Sorry to be a bother but, can you explain this coil test a little more? Do I disconnect the main coil wire to the distributor or you mean the little wire that goes inside the distributor? The other little wire ties into the wiring harness. Seems like one side has a + and the other a -. Then take my digital tester on ohms, and put a lead on the + and - and I should get 2-4 ohms? If I get a higher reading? lower?

The starter was bad, brushes wore down to nubs, armature maybe damaged beyond repair. I got a rebuilt one, nice and tight, tractor sounds like new when I crank it, just no fire!!!!
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3rd tractor 1966 Ford 3000 gas
2nd tractor Yanmar 2000 (hated it,sold it after 3 weeks)
1st tractor 1948 Ferguson TE-20 (loved it)
Non-tractor project a 1969 Chevy C-10

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Old 05-23-2012, 10:19 AM   post #7 of 14
donimbimbo
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Default Re: Ford 3000 gas not running

Yes you can spray starter fluid into the air intake while cranking. If spark is sufficient it should start and run for as long as you are spraying (assuming you have a fuel problem).

For the coil test, remove the small wires, that's the primary side. Then measure the resistance (ohms) across those two terminals. The polarity does not matter. It sure is sounding like a ignition coil problem.

If the resistance is really low (below 1 ohm) then the coil could be bad. It's also bad if the resistance is too high, such as 10 ohms.

There are quite a few message threads on the forum here that address ignition coils and the use of external resistors. These resistors, if they exist, are located in the primary circuit of the ignition coil.
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Old 05-26-2012, 03:37 PM   post #8 of 14
WadmalawJoe
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Default Re: Ford 3000 gas not running

Thanks Donimbimbo for all your help.

Update;
The coil tested fine with a ohms reading of 3.45. I picked up another just cause...... I will keep one as a spare I guess. I also picked up new plug wires. I had replaced everything else so why not.
Still no start.
So I start from scratch, I get 1st cylinder to top out, check distributor, its pointing between #2 & 3 cylinder!!! So apparently when I put the distributor back in it must have slid into a different spot and I didn't catch it
So I reset it so rotor points at #1 plug while #1 is top dead.
It's time to give it a crank and see what happens....pow! backfires! While at least I'm finally getting somewhere. However......... now if I turn distributor a little I get nothing, just cranks.... I turn it the other way and it backfires. I'm thinking somewhere between it should start and run but can't quite make it happen.
Any ideas?
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3rd tractor 1966 Ford 3000 gas
2nd tractor Yanmar 2000 (hated it,sold it after 3 weeks)
1st tractor 1948 Ferguson TE-20 (loved it)
Non-tractor project a 1969 Chevy C-10

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Old 05-27-2012, 11:00 AM   post #9 of 14
EtIsCool
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Default Re: Ford 3000 gas not running

Quote:
Originally Posted by WadmalawJoe View Post
Thanks Donimbimbo for all your help.

So I reset it so rotor points at #1 plug while #1 is top dead.
It's time to give it a crank and see what happens....pow! backfires! While at least I'm finally getting somewhere. However......... now if I turn distributor a little I get nothing, just cranks.... I turn it the other way and it backfires. I'm thinking somewhere between it should start and run but can't quite make it happen.
Any ideas?
Im not sure but this seems like you might be 180 out. Are you sure you are at TDC on the compression stroke? This also wouldn't be a cure for you other ailments, but maybe you already got them along the way
Hope this helps
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Old 05-27-2012, 04:00 PM   post #10 of 14
WadmalawJoe
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Default Re: Ford 3000 gas not running

I took #1 spark plug out , placed a empty spark plug box on the hole, cranked it until box popped up, also used a wooden dowel to measure difference between piston all the way down and then up. Also timing marks were present in the sight hole. It was on 6 degrees ahead, I manually turned motor ever so slightly to 0 degrees, then put distributor back in and rotor pointing to #1.
What puzzles me also is by turning the distributor clockwise the timing should advance as the rotor spins counter clockwise, however it would backfire the most when it was turned clockwise. Backfiring out the exhaust means it's firing late right?
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3rd tractor 1966 Ford 3000 gas
2nd tractor Yanmar 2000 (hated it,sold it after 3 weeks)
1st tractor 1948 Ferguson TE-20 (loved it)
Non-tractor project a 1969 Chevy C-10

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Old 05-29-2012, 08:13 AM   post #11 of 14
WadmalawJoe
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Default Re: Ford 3000 gas not running

I did some more reading and figured out that the backfiring means its to advance. So anyway, spent most of the Memorial weekend messing with it. I'm giving up, calling a mechanic today and having him come out to the farm and look at it.
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3rd tractor 1966 Ford 3000 gas
2nd tractor Yanmar 2000 (hated it,sold it after 3 weeks)
1st tractor 1948 Ferguson TE-20 (loved it)
Non-tractor project a 1969 Chevy C-10

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Old 05-29-2012, 10:20 PM   post #12 of 14
WadmalawJoe
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Default Re: Ford 3000 gas not running

Spent a half hour talking to a mechanic today. He was a retired guy who keeps himself busy and likes making extra money. He said the same thing as EtIsCool, sounds like I'm out 180 degrees. I had no idea timing marks would show on both strokes...
So I will give it a try tomorrow.
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3rd tractor 1966 Ford 3000 gas
2nd tractor Yanmar 2000 (hated it,sold it after 3 weeks)
1st tractor 1948 Ferguson TE-20 (loved it)
Non-tractor project a 1969 Chevy C-10

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Old 05-31-2012, 09:22 AM   post #13 of 14
donimbimbo
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Default Re: Ford 3000 gas not running

Crankshaft makes 2 revolutions for one complete 4 cycle process. so the TDC mark comes around twice, once for the compression/fire stroke and again for the exhaust/intake.

The only way to tell which is which is to see the valve action.
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Old 06-03-2012, 08:48 AM   post #14 of 14
WadmalawJoe
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Default Re: Ford 3000 gas not running

Finally a great update!!
I finally had the chance to work on her late yesterday. I put a upside down screwdriver in #1 and turned motor until screwdriver shot up in the air. It just lobbed it up over the battery and it fell to the floor, nothing to exciting.
My timing marks read 20 degrees. So I eased it to 0 and then put distributor back in pointing to #1. Well, it sounded like it was really close to starting finally! After a few cranks and no starting I pulled it out and moved it one tooth, same thing, almost start, tried one tooth the other way, same thing almost started. Frustration starts to build rapidly.. So I try pulling it out and pointing it 180 degrees the other way, nothing... try moving it one tooth, nothing... then try one tooth the other way, nothing.... really ticked at this point..... I decide I have tried almost every tooth on the distributor gear I might as well start moving it one tooth at a time and see what happens. I start working my way around and then get a POW a extra loud backfire that about makes me deaf,(my tractor is in my barn so the sound is extra loud), so I have a aah haa moment and pull the distributor out turn it 180 again and put it back in and whaa laaaa she fires right up!!!
So this afternoon I have a hayfield of a yard to mow, pastures to drag, horse round pen to regrade and our dirt road to grade after that tropical storm put a whooping on it.

Thanks for everyone's help!!!
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3rd tractor 1966 Ford 3000 gas
2nd tractor Yanmar 2000 (hated it,sold it after 3 weeks)
1st tractor 1948 Ferguson TE-20 (loved it)
Non-tractor project a 1969 Chevy C-10

Keep it simple and be debt free!
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