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Old 01-20-2012, 11:02 PM   #1
jakenbake
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Default 318 and 44 loader: hy-gard or low viscosity hy-gard

I've been needing to get a few things done on the 318 with 44 loader so it will be ready to go in spring.

Today I pulled it into the garage and started knocking some of it out. Took the seat out to get a new cushion glued down. Broke the throttle cable taking it from the shed to the garage (a good time for that to happen, since I was tearing it apart anyway). Also wanted to replace some hydraulic hoses where the outer rubber was starting to break away.

I had 4 hoses on the loader that needed replaced and 3 on the tractor: 2 to power steering and 1 from the transmission to the valve assembly.

Anyway, I noticed the fluid in my 44 loader was milky. I already changed it once when I first got it. I think I need to cycle the rams to get it all out and clean out the bottom of the reservoir.

Also, the tranny fluid is currently the red type F.

Anyway, should I be using regular hy-gard, or low viscosity hy-gard for the loader?

What about the tractor's hydro system? Regular or low viscosity?

Also, since it costs an arm and a leg to get the stuff from the dealer, and I'm probably going to have to flush the loader system a couple of times, I'd like to use some less expensive fluid than Deere's. Anyone use another brand?

Oh, and I will upload pictures of my mess here in a little bit.
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Old 01-21-2012, 02:20 AM   #2
hoosierpete
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Default Re: 318 and 44 loader: hy-gard or low viscosity hy-gard

First off cycling the rams won't get it all out, you need to remove the hoses and cycle the rams manually to get all the oil out of the cylinders, if you do that and clean the resovoir, you shouldn't need to flush it with any different oil. I think that the regular viscosity is the way to go, a loader will add extra heat to the oil. I also like it for the hydro. I don't know why J. D. went with a separate pump for the 300 series tractors, I have a Buford Bucket on my 332 with an oil cooler and it runs great using the existing ports on the front of the tractor.
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Old 01-21-2012, 06:06 AM   #3
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Default Re: 318 and 44 loader: hy-gard or low viscosity hy-gard

Tractor hydro system use low viscosity, noticeable in the winter as I made the mistake on my 318 the first winter, changed it out and the next winter everything worked much better. Not sure about the loader though.
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:36 AM   #4
69project
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Default Re: 318 and 44 loader: hy-gard or low viscosity hy-gard

I use low viscosity hygard in my 20 loader and it works just fine.

The Buford bucket is like a Johnny Bucket correct? If that is the case I am sure it does work fine off the tractor hydraulics because it probably doesn't use much more power than a 4 way blade since it doesn't lift very high.

With a loader on the older 300/400 (and older JD's) the on board hydraulics will not provide enough power to use the loader and the rest of the hydraulic systems on the tractor. Everything will be very slow to the point of not being worth it. That is why JD provided an external pump and hydraulic system for it's loaders on the older models. Now for the 425 series and newer the onboard system is much stronger and can handle it.

You should be able to just drain your hydraulic tank to flush the system. You can also break open some of your lines to get the last little bit out.

Believe it or not when I replaced the hoses on my 20 loader the cheapest place was the dealer. $17.50 a hose vs $28 per hose to have them made. So do some shopping before you fork out the cash.
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:56 AM   #5
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Default Re: 318 and 44 loader: hy-gard or low viscosity hy-gard

PA318 is correct use the low viscosity. Make sure you clean the filter well, and get all the gunk that settles below the filter. I used kerosene and and oil change pump to clean it all out. I think you will find that the milky oils is coming from an air leak.I thought it was water in the oil, but after changing it, the new oil got milky right away. My 44 was leaking at the intake to the pump where the return hose meets the pump. sucking in air frothed the oil. Let us know how it works out....pictures?
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Old 01-21-2012, 08:32 AM   #6
jakenbake
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Default Re: 318 and 44 loader: hy-gard or low viscosity hy-gard

thanks guys. I paid about 21 a hose, but they couldn't make the 3 that go on the tractor, so I bought some used ones on eBay for cheap (I know, I'm cheap). sounds like I will try the dealer next time.

So sounds like ill use low viscosity hygard all around.

mainecoast, any special technique to find the leak, or did you just tighten all your connections?

also, can you elaborate on the kerosene and oil change pump technique?

oh, and is the dealer really the only place to find the the low v hygard? I think shell and chevron make some that meet the spec, just don't know where it is sold.
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Old 01-21-2012, 10:51 AM   #7
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Default Re: 318 and 44 loader: hy-gard or low viscosity hy-gard

Jakenbake, at the bottom of the Hydro tank is the low pressure out flow hose. Remove the hose and the filter is threaded into the into the outflow hose barb. I cleaned my filter with carb cleaner. You have an area of the tank below the outflow that where all the solids will settle into. I used a drill powered oil pump to get the rest of the fluid out. To get the rest out I filled the botom with kerosene and used a stiff rod to agitate. Did this untill it was clean and repeated with hydo fluid. As fare as the air leak I knew it had to be on the low pressure side. So I double clamped both ends and it instantly stop the problem . Also any hydroulics shop can make up hoses pretty cheap.
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88 318 "original", under 300 hrs, model 44 loader, 50 inch deck, model 49 blower, factory weight box, #10 cart, 4ft York rake.
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87 318 "original" 427 hours, work in progress.
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Old 01-21-2012, 12:25 PM   #8
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Default Re: 318 and 44 loader: hy-gard or low viscosity hy-gard

Thanks maincoast. That sounds easy enough.

Pictures as promised (although later than promised). Took a few pictures of the old hoses, and 1 of the new hoses installed.

Also took a picture of the bucket, which has a bow to it. Need to take it to a machine shop or auto body shop and see if they can't straighten it out.
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2001 JD 345
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Craftsman 42" High Speed Sweeper

1988 JD 332
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Old 01-21-2012, 06:46 PM   #9
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Default Re: 318 and 44 loader: hy-gard or low viscosity hy-gard

69 project:

Lift height is not the issue, lift weight is, I can lift and carry #550 lbs with my 332 and Buford Bucket, lifting a load and moving at the same time is not an issue, I don't notice any hesitation or rpm drop on the motor. The 3x8 cylinders and inovative pivot arm probably make a big difference. I still like regular Hygard, you live in Ohio and the weather there is not that unusually cold, but you will use your loader the most in the summer. Low vis oil is great when it is engine oil, but once you start your tractor the oil in the Hydro is going to heat up on its own, unless you live in Canada I still son't think you need it.
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:13 PM   #10
69project
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Default Re: 318 and 44 loader: hy-gard or low viscosity hy-gard

Actually, I live in Kentucky. I went to pick up some regular hygard from the shelf because it came in a bigger container and my parts guy didn't recommend it and actually my manual says I should have low viscosity. So, while my 400 is about 25 years out of warranty I do not want to screw up the hydro.

With a loader on the tractor hydraulics, it will work, but it will be so slow as to not be practical unless you have the patience of Job. There are some folks that do that on the older JD's. WFM has one or two guys that do it, but I think they do it because they haven't found a suitable replacement pump.

I just looked at a Buford Bucket on Youtube. Neat set up. However some major differences compared to a 44 loader. It appears to only have two lift rams, much like a 4 way snow blade. So, if you only have two rams to work, that is much easier and well within the capabilities of the tractor hydraulics because I am sure the tractor just thinks it powering a 4 way blade. A 44 loader has 4 hydraulic cylinders to power and they have a much longer stroke. Also, a 44 loader has a lot more lines/hoses/hydraulic capacity and I just do not think the hydraulic systems on the older JD's have the capacity to deal with tractor hydraulics and the needs of a loader. Does it work, yes just not very well.
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Old 01-21-2012, 09:45 PM   #11
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Default Re: 318 and 44 loader: hy-gard or low viscosity hy-gard

What do the Shell and Chevron cost??? My dealer sells LV HyGard for $14/gal. That's cheaper than most online dealers even without adding the shipping cost... If it's something that you will be changing a lot I can see how/why to save some $$$, but for a once in a while thing I don't think LV HyGard is priced that badly (Just my opinion, feel free to disagree). I've looked into using other fluids on my newish X500 but have decided to stick with JD.
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