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Old 09-29-2011, 11:49 PM   post #1 of 87
CrazyRoper
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Default My Tractor Build

ok guys its time!! my first build up! i know for a fact that it will definatly not be as well written as those such as jdcrawler's tractor build up. but i am going to try my best. along the way i will also be requesting the wise advise of those who have completed tractor buildups before.


Here are the details,
for frame i am using 2 by 2 thick wall square steel.
For power plant i am going to be using either a 14hp Kohler k321 or a 16hp Briggs opposed.
The tranny is a Peerless 2300. it is going to be approx Deere 300 series in size.
Folowing the partial completion of this tractor (or at least the rolling chassis). i will start a FEL buildup.

tomorrow i will get the frame cut and laid out.

questions:
1.Witch engine would you use??
2. is the peerless tranny going to hold up to fel work??
3. What G.P.M should i shoot for when i get my hyd pump??
4. Would you guys rather this keep it all in one thread??
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tractors:
1980 Turf Trac 16/44 (MTD 824) - rear side-by-side plow, rear snow/dirt blade, v-bar 4 link tire chains.
1982 John Deere 66 RER
1988 Roper YT16 hydro
other:
2006 Craftsman Push 6.5hp front wheel drive
1983 Princess Auto Mini Bike (in progress)
1967 Mercury (ford) half ton 240 3spd
1965 snow cruiser 360 opposed twin, 2 stroke, 14hp

operator of:
2010 John Deere 2320 mid mower, bagger and rear tiller.
2005 Grasshopper 60" front mount , bagger
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Old 09-30-2011, 01:35 AM   post #2 of 87
bridgeman
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Default Re: My Tractor Build

OK Crazy,

Since none of the tractor builders have chimed in yet, I'll throw in my advice (worth absolutely zilch, as I don't build tractors--my welding is too sloppy, my torch-cutting skills are marginal, and I lack the patience to see such a lengthy job through to the end--I admire your ambition).

Your power source and tranny need to be matched to what you plan to do with the thing when finished. Pulling boulders up a steep grade?--go with a big Cummins Turbo. Making it a show tractor for the annual doll buggy parade in Selkirk?--go with the smallest one-lunger you can find. Making a long story short, I suspect you can answer most of your questions yourself. That being said, hopefully someone with tractor-building skills will be along shortly, to steer you on the best path forward.

On a serious note, though--don't skimp on the welding electrodes you use. I'd highly recommend a deep-penetrating, all position rod like a 7018 (kept in a warming oven after opening). Especially for the TS frame, as it's probably some higher strength A-500, Grade B. And don't forget the pre-heat if it's thick-walled stuff--far less likely to develop cracking in the heat-affected zone.
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Old 09-30-2011, 05:58 AM   post #3 of 87
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Default Re: My Tractor Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyRoper View Post
ok guys its time!! my first build up! i know for a fact that it will definatly not be as well written as those such as jdcrawler's tractor build up. but i am going to try my best. along the way i will also be requesting the wise advise of those who have completed tractor buildups before.


Here are the details,
for frame i am using 2 by 2 thick wall square steel.
For power plant i am going to be using either a 14hp Kohler k321 or a 16hp Briggs opposed.
The tranny is a Peerless 2300. it is going to be approx Deere 300 series in size.
Folowing the partial completion of this tractor (or at least the rolling chassis). i will start a FEL buildup.

tomorrow i will get the frame cut and laid out.

questions:
1.Witch engine would you use??
2. is the peerless tranny going to hold up to fel work??
3. What G.P.M should i shoot for when i get my hyd pump??
4. Would you guys rather this keep it all in one thread??
1.& 2. - Your engine and transmission should be somewhat compatable. The Peeless 2300 can be found in the MF10/12 tractors using 10 and 12 hp engines respectively. Operating conditions (hills, etc.) dictate horsepower, and weight and torque requirements dictate transmission capabilities. More engine with a gear drive will handle hills better, but won't make any difference with a hydro or for FEL work.

The 2300 has a max static load rating of 750 lb on the axle. I can't remember the max torque rating, but it's somewhere in the 600 - 750 ft. lb. area. That makes it suitable for the light and the low end of the medium weight GTs which are where the MF10/12's reside. The JD 300 series are solidly in the medium weight GT class and use a heavier rear end.

That's background info. Will it work for FEL duty? Yes. Would I recommend it? No.

FEL work involves an enormous amount of back and forth movement (clutch work) as well as precise and slow movement at relatively high power settings, making a hydro very much the preferred transmission. The hydro version of the 2300 is the 2400 and it's mated to a small Sundstrand hydro. I had a FEL on a MF12H hydro for 7 years and about 700 hours and was well pleased with the performance, to the point where I may do the same to my current MF12H. It was not a heavy lifter (400 - 500 lb safely when properly ballasted) and was somewhat lacking in traction and power delivery to the ground due to the weight constraints on the rear end. The axle trumpets are cast iron and will snap if overloaded and receive a shock load on top of that. That's the voice of experience talking. Learning can be expensive and time consuming.

3. For a FEL hydraulic pump, 6 gpm at max engine rpm. My MF1655 has an 8 gpm pump but I rarely operate at more than 2/3 throttle. Quarter inch hoses and the less expensive valves are maxed out at 6 gpm. Any more than that and the pump is working hard just pushing oil through the lines and the sysem is making heat. Besides, it is very hard to control a GT sized FEL at 6 gpm. It is too fast for precise work and it can get very bouncy from overcontrolling. Flow control is done with the throttle, usually 1/2 to 2/3 for FEL work.

4. Keep it in one thread. That makes it a lot easier for us to follow the entire build rather than chasing pieces-parts of the build all over the place. It is one build, even though there are many aspects to it.

You'll find that P.A.L. is your friend with this project.

Have fun! Looking forward to the progress and, especially, the completion.
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Spending too much time on MTF to work on my toys.

Last edited by TUDOR; 09-30-2011 at 06:11 AM.
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Old 09-30-2011, 08:58 AM   post #4 of 87
CrazyRoper
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Default Re: My Tractor Build

thank you for the responses so far.

bridgeman-i am going to be using a very large MIG for this project , but it is at school and i can get you the amps after school.

TUDOR-i think i am going with the kohler because it is a horizontal shaft, with would make for easier mounting of the hyd pump and the belt routing to the tranny.
i have had very good luck with this tranny in the past as it was in my MTD 823 prior to this build. i put it through **** and came back, so i am confident that it will be strong enough, with the amount of work i want to do with it.
( i dont need a FEL and upon building this one i would just be doing light stuff, lifting the front end of my quad,moving empty pallets, absolutly no digging)
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tractors:
1980 Turf Trac 16/44 (MTD 824) - rear side-by-side plow, rear snow/dirt blade, v-bar 4 link tire chains.
1982 John Deere 66 RER
1988 Roper YT16 hydro
other:
2006 Craftsman Push 6.5hp front wheel drive
1983 Princess Auto Mini Bike (in progress)
1967 Mercury (ford) half ton 240 3spd
1965 snow cruiser 360 opposed twin, 2 stroke, 14hp

operator of:
2010 John Deere 2320 mid mower, bagger and rear tiller.
2005 Grasshopper 60" front mount , bagger
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Old 09-30-2011, 09:09 AM   post #5 of 87
jdcrawler
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Default Re: My Tractor Build

.... From my own experience, ,,,,,
Putting it all on one post or breaking it up would depend on how in depth your project is going to be.

If it will end up being 10 or 15 pages including all the comments that get posted on it, then put it all in one post.
If it is going to be a lot larger than that, then you might want to split it up.

On my very first project, I put all my updates on one post.
It ended up to be about 30 pages with all the comments.
I got complaints that it took too long to load up for those that had dial-up.
I also got complaints that it was too hard for someone to go back and find one particular part of the project because it was all spread out with comments in between everything.

Because I have a tenancy to get in-depth on documenting my projects, I switched to starting a new post for each update.

I've been putting the links to all the post an the last post for a project so the reader can go back thru all the post.
This makes it easier to find one particular part of the project.

I've recently received complaints about only putting the links on the last post so I'm going to change that and put the links in more often.

On my R/T project, I made 45 individual postings.
If that was all on one post it would probable be up around 60 pages with the comments.
Can you imagine how long it would take to open a file that size on dial-up or trying to go back and find one particular item ?
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Old 09-30-2011, 01:14 PM   post #6 of 87
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Default Re: My Tractor Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyRoper View Post
TUDOR-i think i am going with the kohler because it is a horizontal shaft, with would make for easier mounting of the hyd pump and the belt routing to the tranny.
i have had very good luck with this tranny in the past as it was in my MTD 823 prior to this build. i put it through **** and came back, so i am confident that it will be strong enough, with the amount of work i want to do with it.
( i dont need a FEL and upon building this one i would just be doing light stuff, lifting the front end of my quad,moving empty pallets, absolutly no digging)
I prefer horizontal shaft engines myself. Much easier to work with.

I'm not downplaying the the tranny at all. You mentioned adding a FEL and there are limitations with that transmission. If you work within those limitations, it is an excellent choice, even for FEL duty. I did a lot of very tough excavating for 2' deep water lines for my pool with the Peerless 2400 with no issues.

Any one with a FEL eventually will find its limits as they gain experience. No one limits their use to "light loads" for long. The only FELs that have never dug into the ground are the ones that just rolled off the assembly line. A small tractor with a FEL is just too handy not to dig in the dirt.
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Sometimes you get on a roll, sometimes the roll gets on you.

In Service
MF GC2310, Husqvarna YTH20B42T

Down for Repairs
MF1655 w/ FEL, MF1655, MF12H, MF8H, MF7H
Spending too much time on MTF to work on my toys.

Last edited by TUDOR; 09-30-2011 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 09-30-2011, 08:36 PM   post #7 of 87
Kbeitz
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Default Re: My Tractor Build

I've been gathering tractor parts for years wanting to yet another tractor.
My back axle will be 2" solid steel.
My tranny is an easton 11 connected to a Sears six speed standard shift chain drive down to my 2" axle. My power plant is a china made 10 hp diesel engine.
Golf cart steering box. my frame will also be 2" sq. box tube.
My hydrolics came off a combind machine.
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Old 10-01-2011, 10:11 AM   post #8 of 87
CrazyRoper
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Default Re: My Tractor Build

ok, i have a pic of the frame tacked together.

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tractors:
1980 Turf Trac 16/44 (MTD 824) - rear side-by-side plow, rear snow/dirt blade, v-bar 4 link tire chains.
1982 John Deere 66 RER
1988 Roper YT16 hydro
other:
2006 Craftsman Push 6.5hp front wheel drive
1983 Princess Auto Mini Bike (in progress)
1967 Mercury (ford) half ton 240 3spd
1965 snow cruiser 360 opposed twin, 2 stroke, 14hp

operator of:
2010 John Deere 2320 mid mower, bagger and rear tiller.
2005 Grasshopper 60" front mount , bagger
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Old 10-02-2011, 07:09 AM   post #9 of 87
TUDOR
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Default Re: My Tractor Build

Looks good!

The only extra item that you might not have thought about is to weld a stop block to the frame so that it bears against the front of the axle trumpet. That will help to reduce stress on the transaxle mounting bolts.
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Sometimes you get on a roll, sometimes the roll gets on you.

In Service
MF GC2310, Husqvarna YTH20B42T

Down for Repairs
MF1655 w/ FEL, MF1655, MF12H, MF8H, MF7H
Spending too much time on MTF to work on my toys.
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Old 10-02-2011, 11:22 AM   post #10 of 87
CrazyRoper
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Default Re: My Tractor Build

there are other mounting plates on the trans ( you just cant see them) i will be building the seating area and sctructure for the trans on monday
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tractors:
1980 Turf Trac 16/44 (MTD 824) - rear side-by-side plow, rear snow/dirt blade, v-bar 4 link tire chains.
1982 John Deere 66 RER
1988 Roper YT16 hydro
other:
2006 Craftsman Push 6.5hp front wheel drive
1983 Princess Auto Mini Bike (in progress)
1967 Mercury (ford) half ton 240 3spd
1965 snow cruiser 360 opposed twin, 2 stroke, 14hp

operator of:
2010 John Deere 2320 mid mower, bagger and rear tiller.
2005 Grasshopper 60" front mount , bagger
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Old 10-02-2011, 02:06 PM   post #11 of 87
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Default Re: My Tractor Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyRoper View Post
there are other mounting plates on the trans ( you just cant see them)
Yes there are.

With a well ballasted tractor that is worked hard, there is more than a slight possibility that they won't be enough over time. I broke my MF12H in half 3 times finding this out, and then finding the cure, 30 years ago.

It is disconcerting as all get out watching the rear wheels advancing to the floorboards when they should be 3" away.

You never know if a mod is actually required if you use it because it does its job. If you don't use it, there's a 50/50 chance it wasn't required. Poor odds for a working machine.

Yours at least doesn't have the built in failure point that the MF 12 had, and the mod, simple as it may be, may not be required. Just making a suggestion that has served well in the past.
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Click for The Hydraulics Forum!

Sometimes you get on a roll, sometimes the roll gets on you.

In Service
MF GC2310, Husqvarna YTH20B42T

Down for Repairs
MF1655 w/ FEL, MF1655, MF12H, MF8H, MF7H
Spending too much time on MTF to work on my toys.
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Old 10-02-2011, 10:34 PM   post #12 of 87
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Default Re: My Tractor Build

thank you for your suggestion, i appreciate it. and i am going to take it into consideration when i work on it tomorrow.
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tractors:
1980 Turf Trac 16/44 (MTD 824) - rear side-by-side plow, rear snow/dirt blade, v-bar 4 link tire chains.
1982 John Deere 66 RER
1988 Roper YT16 hydro
other:
2006 Craftsman Push 6.5hp front wheel drive
1983 Princess Auto Mini Bike (in progress)
1967 Mercury (ford) half ton 240 3spd
1965 snow cruiser 360 opposed twin, 2 stroke, 14hp

operator of:
2010 John Deere 2320 mid mower, bagger and rear tiller.
2005 Grasshopper 60" front mount , bagger
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Old 10-12-2011, 08:55 AM   post #13 of 87
CrazyRoper
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Default Re: My Tractor Build

good morning, i am sorry i have been super busey lately, and i barely had anytime to work on the tractor, but i will take pics and show you what i have gotten done today.
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tractors:
1980 Turf Trac 16/44 (MTD 824) - rear side-by-side plow, rear snow/dirt blade, v-bar 4 link tire chains.
1982 John Deere 66 RER
1988 Roper YT16 hydro
other:
2006 Craftsman Push 6.5hp front wheel drive
1983 Princess Auto Mini Bike (in progress)
1967 Mercury (ford) half ton 240 3spd
1965 snow cruiser 360 opposed twin, 2 stroke, 14hp

operator of:
2010 John Deere 2320 mid mower, bagger and rear tiller.
2005 Grasshopper 60" front mount , bagger
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Old 10-16-2011, 12:18 PM   post #14 of 87
CrazyRoper
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Default Re: My Tractor Build

ok, i have some pictures of what i have gotten done, and a few of the fenders i got yesterday to go on the tractor.







i will post more when tinypic works again
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tractors:
1980 Turf Trac 16/44 (MTD 824) - rear side-by-side plow, rear snow/dirt blade, v-bar 4 link tire chains.
1982 John Deere 66 RER
1988 Roper YT16 hydro
other:
2006 Craftsman Push 6.5hp front wheel drive
1983 Princess Auto Mini Bike (in progress)
1967 Mercury (ford) half ton 240 3spd
1965 snow cruiser 360 opposed twin, 2 stroke, 14hp

operator of:
2010 John Deere 2320 mid mower, bagger and rear tiller.
2005 Grasshopper 60" front mount , bagger
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Old 10-19-2011, 12:41 PM   post #15 of 87
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Default Re: My Tractor Build

I love build threads!!!
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