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Old 11-03-2010, 06:26 PM   post #1 of 19
evo803
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Default What is the best metal primer ?

I am looking for a primer that will keep the rust a bay while I am working on it and using it this winter . I do not want to finish paint because I know I will be modifying and tweaking it after I use it for a while. So what is the best primer to use ? I have a small paint booth and a compressed air Binks HVLP gun and pressure pot for application.

Do I have to remove all the mill scale or just sanding with DA and 80 grit be fine ?

Thanks
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Old 11-03-2010, 07:32 PM   post #2 of 19
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Default Re: What is the best metal primer ?

Sikkens , restoration primer , epoxy base. looks green to the color.
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Old 11-03-2010, 07:48 PM   post #3 of 19
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Default Re: What is the best metal primer ?

Im a firm believer in PPG's DPLF series. I have tried Duponts Veraprime self etching primer and had it peel off the metal. Im sure I did something wrong application wise but I have never had any issue with PPG DP and it is very very tough. Its somewhat expensive so maybe the Sikkens mentioned above would be a cheaper alternative but overall I would say use an epoxy primer.

As far as prep, grit blast is best but your 80-240 DA will be OK, then use the PPG metal treatment and conditioner if you want to go the extra mile. The first bottle is purple and will remove most surface rust. The second bottle which is yellow will eat some rust and leave a phosphorous residue which I understand is good for paint adhesion. BTW, after you rinse the purple off you will not be able to avoid a serious surface rust residue. To avoid that I spray the yellow on after the purple sits awhile, rinse and then repeat the yellow. You will still get some light surface rust residue but I dont think its anything to worry about, it will not grow and pop the paint off like some internet jockeys will have you to believe. Also after using these treatments you are assure there are no silicones or other contaminates waiting to ruin your work.
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Old 11-06-2010, 11:21 AM   post #4 of 19
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Default Re: What is the best metal primer ?

You might want to give Naval Jelly a look, not a primer but is suppose to stop the rust, and the price if right.


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Old 11-06-2010, 11:36 AM   post #5 of 19
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Default Re: What is the best metal primer ?

I was always led to beleive primers do not seal the metal from moisture,and it was always best to topcoat it with a gloss paint for maximun protection,even if it was only going to be "temporary" and sanded off later when the final top coat was applied..--however,I haven't been around auto paints for a good 15 years,and I'm sure they probably have some type of primer that does not need to be topcoated right away that uses hardener....

Naval Jelly is just phosphoric acid,that helps neutralize and remove rust,but it doesn't offer much protection against re-rusting..a rust converter coating like Permatex/Duro "Extend" or Rustoleum's "Rust Reformer" and "Neutra-Rust" will turn rust into a black primer that wont re-rust for quite some time though..
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Old 11-06-2010, 01:08 PM   post #6 of 19
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Default Re: What is the best metal primer ?

Best metal primer.... POR15




POR-15 is a high-tech, high performance rust-preventive coating designed for application directly on rusted or seasoned metal surfaces. It dries to an incredible rock-hard, non-porous finish that won't chip, crack, or peel, and it prevents rust from recurring by protecting metal from further exposure to moisture.

Use it to coat rusty frames, floor pans, farm equipment, marine equipment, or even a heavily corroded battery tray.

POR-15 is sensitive to UV light (sun) and must be topcoated for prolonged exposure to sunlight.
Topcoating is not required for areas not exposed to sunlight.

Pint............ $29.95
Quart......... $44.95
Gallon........ $143.00

http://www.por15.com/POR-15/productinfo/1GB/
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Old 11-06-2010, 01:21 PM   post #7 of 19
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Default Re: What is the best metal primer ?

Any good epoxy primer will work to seal and protect the metal. All will need to be lightly sanded before top coats if not painted within their recoat window.

I like Kirker, because it works, it is inexpensive (as 2 part paints go) and easy an easy to mix/measure 1-1 mix. And, it sands much better than any other I've tried. Won't sand well in the first week or so, but after curing for 5-7 days it will not clog the sandpaper. It can also be thinned about 10% to use as a sealer =.
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Old 11-06-2010, 03:29 PM   post #8 of 19
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Default Re: What is the best metal primer ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett-JDX748 View Post
Best metal primer.... POR15

POR-15 is a high-tech, high performance rust-preventive coating designed for application directly on rusted or seasoned metal surfaces. It dries to an incredible rock-hard, non-porous finish that won't chip, crack, or peel, and it prevents rust from recurring by protecting metal from further exposure to moisture.
POR Stands for Pour Over Rust. It's amazing in that application. I've heard it's not intended for fresh steel like the awesome machine that evo803 is building.
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Old 11-06-2010, 05:16 PM   post #9 of 19
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Default Re: What is the best metal primer ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by antiqueetc View Post
Any good epoxy primer will work to seal and protect the metal. All will need to be lightly sanded before top coats if not painted within their recoat window.

I like Kirker, because it works, it is inexpensive (as 2 part paints go) and easy an easy to mix/measure 1-1 mix. And, it sands much better than any other I've tried. Won't sand well in the first week or so, but after curing for 5-7 days it will not clog the sandpaper. It can also be thinned about 10% to use as a sealer =.
I think the epoxies are superior. Lots of good one out there.
2nd the kirker. 80$ for 2 sprayable gallons, 1 to 1, super tuff, dries fast. IMO perfect for these tractors or even refinshing automobiles. It'll hold most anything down. I used it on my 69 corvette and am very happy with the result. Other brands may be better and there'll be lots and lots of argument. but I love the stuff. If you need something protected then it's a good way to go without breaking the bank. Once it's dry for a while just try and scrape it off. Rick
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Old 11-06-2010, 05:31 PM   post #10 of 19
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Default Re: What is the best metal primer ?

Thanks for all the responses I am thinking I might just spray bomb it to limit rusting this winter and then when all the tweaking is done I will do it right with a epoxy primer and a nice topcoat.

I have another question what is the best way to get of mill scale ?

I am assuming that it should all be down to bare clean metal for the best possible paint job.
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Old 11-06-2010, 07:15 PM   post #11 of 19
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Default Re: What is the best metal primer ?

Spray it with muriatic acid, get the cheap stuff from TSC or Lowes.
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Old 11-06-2010, 07:17 PM   post #12 of 19
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Default Re: What is the best metal primer ?

If basic protection from surface rust is all your going for I have to recommend Rustoleum rusty metal primer, cheap, hardly every runs and can topcoat right over it if you so decide.
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Old 11-06-2010, 07:51 PM   post #13 of 19
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Default Re: What is the best metal primer ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by helixhippie View Post
POR Stands for Pour Over Rust. It's amazing in that application. I've heard it's not intended for fresh steel like the awesome machine that evo803 is building.
No! no! it is PAINT over Rust and it isn't really a primer. when you get POR on a surface and it dries it is on there till it is ground off! It works on frames etc that you don't want to sandblast, just scrape off the scaley rust and paint over the rust, it converts rust to a durable material, it isn't made to paint over with ordinary paint materials.

Get primer from an auto paint dealer with a sealer added to protect the metal from rusting for a short time.
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Old 11-06-2010, 10:01 PM   post #14 of 19
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Default Re: What is the best metal primer ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by okieduc104 View Post
No! no! it is PAINT over Rust and it isn't really a primer. when you get POR on a surface and it dries it is on there till it is ground off! It works on frames etc that you don't want to sandblast, just scrape off the scaley rust and paint over the rust, it converts rust to a durable material, it isn't made to paint over with ordinary paint materials.

Get primer from an auto paint dealer with a sealer added to protect the metal from rusting for a short time.

From the "Instructions"

3. You must use Metal-Ready fi rst if you are
painting POR15 on new steel, galvanized
metal , aluminum, or any smooth metal
surface.

10. POR-15 should not be applied over other
paints. It is UV sensitive and must be topcoated
with an opaque paint if left exposed to
the sun.

http://www.por15.com/Data%20Sheets/n...directions.pdf
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Old 11-07-2010, 09:49 AM   post #15 of 19
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Default Re: What is the best metal primer ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by okieduc104 View Post
No! no! it is PAINT over Rust and it isn't really a primer. when you get POR on a surface and it dries it is on there till it is ground off! It works on frames etc that you don't want to sandblast, just scrape off the scaley rust and paint over the rust, it converts rust to a durable material, it isn't made to paint over with ordinary paint materials.

Get primer from an auto paint dealer with a sealer added to protect the metal from rusting for a short time.

Not to jump on but it doesn't convert the rust, just adheres to and seals it. Rust can't spread if it has no oxygen.
Also, you are correct about the ordinary paint topcoating but they make their own topcoat as well as a coating to use first that allows topcoating with ordinary paint.
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