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Old 12-26-2005, 02:01 PM   post #1 of 11
Bohica
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Default Calibers...light and fast...or slow and heavy?

It's become the age old debate on gun boards across the net.....45ACP -vs- 9mm.

It used to be a lead pipe cinch for the .45 guy's...but in the last few years the premium 9mm rounds have quietly crept up in lethality until their OSS ratio (**according to Marshal and Sanow) is right up there in the high 90's with the .45 ACP and the .357 magnum.

Colt 1911...6 or 7 shots of 45ACP

Now it's pretty much a toss up. The .357 is still king as the 125 grain JHP is a 96% stopper. But the best loads in .45 and 9mm are right there with it in the high 90's.

S&W .357 Magnum...still the king of OSS but only 6 shots...

The "wonder nines" as they've been dubbed have almost taken over in popularity due to inexpensive ammo (even self def), high magazine capacity, and lighter weight...a popular line from one these debates is "If the nine is just as good a stopper and I can have 15 rounds instead of 6 (45 acp in a 1911 model and 357 revolver) I'm going with the nine!"


One example of a high capacity 9mm is the Browning High Power

Another more modern but not necessarily better example is the Glock 19.

It's hard to fault that argument...of course we now have .45's in all differant styles, not just 1911's...10 round 45's are very common with the only downside being that a 10 round (or more) mag is by necessity a double stack. This necessitates a pretty fat grip on the pistol and folks with small hands are gonna have trouble.

Check out the fat grip on this Para Ordinance P-14 1911...you pay for those 14 rounds!

So where do you stand? Light and fast? Slow and heavy? High capacity or are you comfortable with 6?

**http://www.stoppingpower.net
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Old 12-26-2005, 02:08 PM   post #2 of 11
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Default Re: Calibers...light and fast...or slow and heavy?

Well - when I was in the USMC, they took away our POS antique 1911's and gave us brand new Baretta 9 mils. Six month's later the 9mm's were taken out back and shot - they gave us back our .45's (new improved version). I have both (9mm and .45). If I HAD to use one or the other, I'd pick the .45. My wife likes her .44 magnum.
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Old 12-26-2005, 03:26 PM   post #3 of 11
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Default Re: Calibers...light and fast...or slow and heavy?

Slammer just to let you know how much I know about it when I first read the title to this post I thought it was the first of the new years weight lose resolutions! ROF

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Old 12-26-2005, 06:07 PM   post #4 of 11
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Default Re: Calibers...light and fast...or slow and heavy?

Very nice, but what about the .40 cal. It does'nt have the kick or over-penetration ( home defense ) of the .45, nor does it have the under-penetration or lack of punch the 9 has, shoot I've heard of 9's bouncing off windshields ( standard loads of course ).
Now don't get me wrong, the 1911's, Hi powers and 357's are sweet. have you ever tried to qualify with a .357? Can you say "target reacquisition problems" I knew you could.

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Old 12-26-2005, 08:44 PM   post #5 of 11
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Default Re: Calibers...light and fast...or slow and heavy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruceman
Very nice, but what about the .40 cal. It does'nt have the kick or over-penetration ( home defense ) of the .45, nor does it have the under-penetration or lack of punch the 9 has, shoot I've heard of 9's bouncing off windshields ( standard loads of course ).
Now don't get me wrong, the 1911's, Hi powers and 357's are sweet. have you ever tried to qualify with a .357? Can you say "target reacquisition problems" I knew you could.

Bruce L~
Actually Bruce I can qualify expert with 357 quite easily...but then again i've been shooting full house .357's for 30 years...and I regulary shoot the larger magnums....41, 44, 454, 460, 480, and 500 S&W.

As for the .40....I have no use for it. The best loads in .40 are no better than the best loads in 9mm so why pay extra for rounds? I actually prefer the 10mm over all of the calibers weve discussed here today. My carry piece is a Glock 29 which is the compact 10mm.

As you may or may not know the .40 is actually a compromise caliber. The round was originally developed as a 10mm for the FBI but so many agents had trouble handling the 10mm that they cut the length (thereby reducing the powder etc...) and called it the ".40 S&W". The round has gained alot of popularity with folks who had trouble dealing with the 45 ACP but wanted something differant from the common 9X19 (9mm).

The most common self defense calibers are .380, 9mm, .40, .357 Sig, 357 mag, 45 ACP, and 10mm. They are listed here in order of "lethality". 10mm is the best overall performer in the bunch but a casual or "weekend" shooter would be advised to stay away from it. Recoil is subjective to the individual so me saying that I don't find the 10mm unpleasant to shoot carries no weight...each person is differant. So I posted the "warning" based on what other shooters have said. Your mileage may vary.

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Old 12-26-2005, 09:46 PM   post #6 of 11
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Default Re: Calibers...light and fast...or slow and heavy?

I just read a letter from a troop in Iraq to his father. His claim is that the old WWII weapons are better than the new ones. His observation was that the 45 has more stopping power than the 9mm.

If the letter was true, then I would have to side with the military.
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Old 12-26-2005, 10:37 PM   post #7 of 11
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Default Re: Calibers...light and fast...or slow and heavy?

Can you say "Delta Elite". As far as I'm concerned the best/most overlooked round has to be the 10mm, granted as Slammer says, it might not be for everyone, but I don't really think it's ever been given it's due. There are a lot of good rounds/chamberings out there for any application, or preference, but I'd rate my personal favorites as, Service pieces- 10mm/.45, Backup-SP101
Double Action Revolver KSP-321XL/.357, Walther PPK/HK-4 .380.
If light and fast is all you want, it's not hard to makeup some .357/.32,.25 accelerator rounds, of course had I known in the 1960's that there would be a market for an accelerator round, **** I could have been rich, or at least famous.
If and when all else fails and it looks like your goin down too, I'd choose fast and heavy, and FRAG EM.

No mater what your shootin, your mileage will vary, if you don't hit the target.
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Old 12-27-2005, 12:33 AM   post #8 of 11
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Default Re: Calibers...light and fast...or slow and heavy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl
I just read a letter from a troop in Iraq to his father. His claim is that the old WWII weapons are better than the new ones. His observation was that the 45 has more stopping power than the 9mm.

If the letter was true, then I would have to side with the military.
Carl you need to keep in mind that they are all using ball ammo. But I agree with him irregardless. When your using ball...the bigger the better. My brother hates the M9 Beretta (current issue).
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Old 12-27-2005, 05:25 AM   post #9 of 11
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Default Re: Calibers...light and fast...or slow and heavy?

I know little about this subject, but just ave to say, that the first pistol I ever shot was a 45 looking a lot like the first picture. My day said it had a lite load, what ever that ment, but still kicked like a horse.
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Old 12-27-2005, 11:02 PM   post #10 of 11
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Default Re: Calibers...light and fast...or slow and heavy?

For most daily carry purposes I prefer mid- to light-weight, rapidly expanding bullet, except for my smaller caliber pocket pistols. Then I prefer fast, mid-weight expander.

I usually grab either the Combat Commander or the 1006 when I head out the door, unless it's real hot & I'm lightly dressed then I tend to go for my trusty old 1903 (in .32 ACP). Light weight, highly concealable. I have had my eyes open for a good used Kel-Tec P-11 since the Rohrbaughs are so darned expensive.

I do keep a 5904 in the bedroom for night duty. If I need more than 15 rounds of HydraShoks, I also need a TAC team.
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Last edited by CatDaddy; 12-28-2005 at 12:23 AM.
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Old 01-02-2006, 09:44 PM   post #11 of 11
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Talking Re: Calibers...light and fast...or slow and heavy?

I may be coming into some money soon and if I do, one of the first things I will buy is a Corbon 400 drop-in barrel for my Springfield .45 auto.

The next thing I want to buy is a Taurus 905 5-shot 9mm snubbie.

After that, a Taurus Protector Model 651 .357 magnum in stainless or titanium ($195.00 difference in price.).

Then, maybe a Ruger New Model Blackhawk single action BN-34X with the convertible 9mm-.357 magnum cylinders.

Of course, I would have to include a Taurus PT909 9mm because of the rail it has for my aging eyes to use a laser sight, and I am hung up on semi-autos with exposed hammers.

A Taurus 132BP in .32 caliber or a Taurus 138BP in .380 caliber so that I could bore out the barrels for a .25 NAA or .32 NAA respectively barrel inserts.

A Taurus stainless Model 66 .357 magnum 7 shot revolver with a 4" barrel wouldn't be too much weight to carry occasionally.

When Taurus brings out their pump action external hammer pump .357 magnum rifle in a carbine size, that would round out my purchases nicely.

After all that, I should still have enough money for some bags of dry dog food so I don't starve with all that artillery laying around me. After all, a mans gotta eat while he dreams about what could be.

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Last edited by Bountyhunter; 01-02-2006 at 10:03 PM.
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