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Old 09-17-2010, 06:35 PM   post #1 of 18
kungdrew
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Default jacobsen Greens mower

Hey all,

I aquired an old Jacobsen greens mower a few years ago and it has sat in my shed since. I did some looking around and found it has a 321 engine 2 stroke?

Anyway, I don't have a putting green but am still thinking about getting it out and tinkering with it and seeing how well it runs. I have never started it but was told it wasn't running when I got it.

I can take some pics if you guys would like, maybe this engine would fit on a regular Jake reel mower I could use in the yard. if I could find one that needed an engine, but I will be satisfied for now just to get it running.

Any pre start tips before I dive in?

[IMG][/IMG]

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Old 09-17-2010, 06:41 PM   post #2 of 18
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Default Re: jacobsen Greens mower

Sweet!
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Old 09-17-2010, 06:53 PM   post #3 of 18
kungdrew
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Default Re: jacobsen Greens mower

Yeah I have a preference for orange equipment.

This thing is supposed to have a grass catcher on it.

Just wondering if it's worth my time to mess with it or should I try to find another frame that I can use in my yard.

Putting greens are expensive and too much hassle for me, I gave it some thought around the time I picked this up, but have since come to my senses.

I paid $17 for it. It belonged to the park district.
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Old 09-17-2010, 07:22 PM   post #4 of 18
Bachsta
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Default Re: jacobsen Greens mower

Is there anything wrong with the frame? If not I would get it running and use it!

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Old 09-17-2010, 07:27 PM   post #5 of 18
kungdrew
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Default Re: jacobsen Greens mower

I would love to use it but dont have the right kind of grass or a smooth enough surface to use it on. I think the longest this will cut is like 5/8"

I'd be scalping up the yard and that would be a bigtime Fail.

I would be happy to let one of you guys with a FEL and scraper blade come over and help me build a putting green, but I don't have the right equipment to pull it off, plus upkeep on a putting green is supposedly nightmarish.

I like the looks of the lawn king and queen, and that type is suited for my yard better.
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Old 09-17-2010, 07:59 PM   post #6 of 18
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Default Re: jacobsen Greens mower

I'm pretty sure the Lawn Queen used the 321 engine. My Lawn Queen is a 1952, and it's supposed to use a 16:1 ratio of 30 weight motor oil, not 2 stroke.

How much height adjustment does that mower have? from the pictures, looks like quite a bit, and with a roller on the front, and what appears to be big roller wheels behind the reel, I don't think scalping would be an issue. Also looks like you've got more than 5 blades on the reel. the more the better for cutting. I'd get it running and see what it does.
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Old 09-17-2010, 08:06 PM   post #7 of 18
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Default Re: jacobsen Greens mower

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwdbrn1 View Post
I'm pretty sure the Lawn Queen used the 321 engine. My Lawn Queen is a 1952, and it's supposed to use a 16:1 ratio of 30 weight motor oil, not 2 stroke.
It's not that it's "supposed" to use 30 weight oil. It's that there was no 2 cycle oil back then. Good 2 cycle oil is much better to use in any 2 cycle engine than 30 weight.
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Old 09-17-2010, 08:08 PM   post #8 of 18
kungdrew
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Default Re: jacobsen Greens mower

Thanks for the fuel ratio info.

This is a greens type mower, the wheels on there are for transport only. They are removed before engaging the reel, and the mower rides on the big steel drum as it travels. VERY low to the ground. It needs a smooth surface to cut evenly.

From what i have found out so far, it will adjust from 1/4" to 5/8" which is way too low to even try on my regular lawn.

I usually leave my grass at around 2" to deal with the hot dry summers we have in my region.
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Old 09-17-2010, 08:13 PM   post #9 of 18
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Default Re: jacobsen Greens mower

oh thats a big difference, hmm maybe you could try to mow with the wheels on or will it not let you do that? otherwise I would say get it running and go from there...

Dan B.
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1974 Lawn-Boy 7224
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1970s Snapper V212P with a Honda GCV160 "The DLC Snapper"
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-10 HP Tecumseh HH100
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Old 09-18-2010, 08:09 AM   post #10 of 18
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Default Re: jacobsen Greens mower

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Originally Posted by Orangedotfever View Post
It's not that it's "supposed" to use 30 weight oil. It's that there was no 2 cycle oil back then. Good 2 cycle oil is much better to use in any 2 cycle engine than 30 weight.
Thanks for the history lesson about 2 stroke oil. I didn't recall that bit from my earlier research on my Lawn Queen, but that's what the manual with mines says, and that's good enough for me. Thing is older than I am, and still running, so I'll stick with the 30 weight.

Another fellow with lots of experience with the 321 engine of that era had this to say over on Smokstak:
"Fuel-oil ratio was 16:1 (1/2 pint SAE 30 - non-detergent oil to a gallon of regular gas) 2 cycle engine oil was not being made in the 1950's like it is today. I would rather see the SAE 30, than the modern 2 cycle oil, as the Lawn Queen engine is a low speed engine."

Guess you can find anything that supports your notions on the internet if you look long enough.

Kungdrew's greens mower might require different oil, so maybe getting an age on it and a manual, if he doesn't have one, would be helpful. If it was made before 1975, he might be able to find more on it here.
http://hmfind.com/JAC/JacobsenSerialNumberFinder.aspx

Last edited by bwdbrn1; 09-18-2010 at 08:34 AM.
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Old 09-18-2010, 08:42 AM   post #11 of 18
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Default Re: jacobsen Greens mower

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwdbrn1 View Post
Thanks for the history lesson about 2 stroke oil. I didn't recall that bit from my earlier research on my Lawn Queen, but that's what the manual with mines says, and that's good enough for me. Thing is older than I am, and still running, so I'll stick with the 30 weight.

Another fellow with lots of experience with the 321 engine of that era had this to say over on Smokstak:
"Fuel-oil ratio was 16:1 (1/2 pint SAE 30 - non-detergent oil to a gallon of regular gas) 2 cycle engine oil was not being made in the 1950's like it is today. I would rather see the SAE 30, than the modern 2 cycle oil, as the Lawn Queen engine is a low speed engine."

Guess you can find anything that supports your notions on the internet if you look long enough.

Kungdrew's greens mower might require different oil, so maybe getting an age on it and a manual, if he doesn't have one, would be helpful. If it was made before 1975, he might be able to find more on it here.
http://hmfind.com/JAC/JacobsenSerialNumberFinder.aspx
I read somewhere that using SAE30 will require you to decoke the motor at pretty constant intervals. Using the 2-stroke oil will reduce this.

It's very similar to oil buring steam locomotives and diesels. They had to decoke them pretty regularly. It 's messy and time consuming.
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Old 09-18-2010, 08:57 AM   post #12 of 18
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Default Re: jacobsen Greens mower

Quote:
Originally Posted by gcmartin1 View Post
I read somewhere that using SAE30 will require you to decoke the motor at pretty constant intervals. Using the 2-stroke oil will reduce this.

It's very similar to oil buring steam locomotives and diesels. They had to decoke them pretty regularly. It 's messy and time consuming.
Yep, I've read that too.
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Old 09-18-2010, 09:02 AM   post #13 of 18
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Default Re: jacobsen Greens mower

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwdbrn1 View Post
Yep, I've read that too.
The crusty, gooey gunk is similar to the stuff you find in the muffler under the mouting plate of your Lawn Boy.
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Old 09-18-2010, 01:02 PM   post #14 of 18
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Default Re: jacobsen Greens mower

Yes, depending on how often you use the machine you will have to de-coke the muffler/exhaust manifold, exhaust ports and the head because the 30 weight non-detergent oil does leave carbon build up.

Modern 2 cycle oil of today is far supperior in many many ways to the old school way of mixing non-detergent oil with the fuel.

The fact though is that these vintage Jac engines are plain bronze bearing, slow speed running motors and need the lubrication that the 30 weight oil provides. You can run the modern two stroke oil all you like in these machines, but be ware that by doing this that it will very potentially cause premature wear and that to me alone is simply not worth the risk to loose some smoke and carbon build up.

Here is brief run down that a friend of mine gave me a while back who has a lot of experience with these engines specifically:

" The modern 2 stroke lubricants do provide superior lubrication to modern engines. Engines with hardened bearing surfaces, rollers, balls and chrome molly rings, along with steel cylenders, and High speed - up to 22,000 RPM. The Jacobsen Lawn Queen, and the 321 series, as well as all those before are definately NOT modern They have soft bronze rods and bearings, cast iron rings and cylenders, plain bronze crank bearings, and for the most part, only turn 3,500 RPM Maximun - LOW SPEED! The 2 cycle lubricants do not stay on the bearing surfaces long enough to provide full protection. If you take apart an engine run with the modern lubricants, you will find a dry crankcase - there will be no oil on the bearing surfaces. for roller and ball baerings, this is not an issue, because the lube just has to be there a split second to do its work. On a plain bearing, this dryness is lethal! Plain bearings need oil on both sides to provide non friction issued. direct contact between metals brings on shearing forces that will tear the bearings up. While a roller-ball bearinged engine will tolerate a leaner oil mixture - 32 to 50 to one mixtures, a plain bearing engine will not tolerate it."

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion and that is one of the neat things that makes up a forum. This is simply a run down of my opinion and an explanation of why I run the 30 non-detergent oil in my vintage Jac engines specifically. Therefore, there will be no need for me to debate any further on the subject in this thread.

Last edited by Austen; 09-18-2010 at 01:36 PM.
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Old 09-18-2010, 02:27 PM   post #15 of 18
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Default Re: jacobsen Greens mower

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgardentractornut View Post
Yes, depending on how often you use the machine you will have to de-coke the muffler/exhaust manifold, exhaust ports and the head because the 30 weight non-detergent oil does leave carbon build up.

Modern 2 cycle oil of today is far supperior in many many ways to the old school way of mixing non-detergent oil with the fuel.

The fact though is that these vintage Jac engines are plain bronze bearing, slow speed running motors and need the lubrication that the 30 weight oil provides. You can run the modern two stroke oil all you like in these machines, but be ware that by doing this that it will very potentially cause premature wear and that to me alone is simply not worth the risk to loose some smoke and carbon build up.

Here is brief run down that a friend of mine gave me a while back who has a lot of experience with these engines specifically:

" The modern 2 stroke lubricants do provide superior lubrication to modern engines. Engines with hardened bearing surfaces, rollers, balls and chrome molly rings, along with steel cylenders, and High speed - up to 22,000 RPM. The Jacobsen Lawn Queen, and the 321 series, as well as all those before are definately NOT modern They have soft bronze rods and bearings, cast iron rings and cylenders, plain bronze crank bearings, and for the most part, only turn 3,500 RPM Maximun - LOW SPEED! The 2 cycle lubricants do not stay on the bearing surfaces long enough to provide full protection. If you take apart an engine run with the modern lubricants, you will find a dry crankcase - there will be no oil on the bearing surfaces. for roller and ball baerings, this is not an issue, because the lube just has to be there a split second to do its work. On a plain bearing, this dryness is lethal! Plain bearings need oil on both sides to provide non friction issued. direct contact between metals brings on shearing forces that will tear the bearings up. While a roller-ball bearinged engine will tolerate a leaner oil mixture - 32 to 50 to one mixtures, a plain bearing engine will not tolerate it."

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion and that is one of the neat things that makes up a forum. This is simply a run down of my opinion and an explanation of why I run the 30 non-detergent oil in my vintage Jac engines specifically. Therefore, there will be no need for me to debate any further on the subject in this thread.

Thanks for the info....
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