Case 580 C. Running only at or about idle speed. Injection pump question? - MyTractorForum.com - The Friendliest Tractor Forum and Best Place for Tractor Information
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Old 09-14-2010, 07:33 PM   post #1 of 57
norrod2009
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Default Case 580 C. Running only at or about idle speed. Injection pump question?

Was using loader for several days OK with plenty of power. Today after 1.5 hrs. tractor lost power- down to about idle. I thought fuel issue. Went and picked up new filters and my manual. Drained all fuel from tank and drained tank. Fresh fuel installed and new filters installed and bled. Engine started right up, runs smooth, but still running at about idle. Linkage working fine. Does this sound like a weak injection pump?
Thank you.
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Old 09-14-2010, 10:40 PM   post #2 of 57
Fla Don
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Default Re: Case 580 C. Running only at or about idle speed. Injection pump question?

Quote:
Originally Posted by norrod2009 View Post
Was using loader for several days OK with plenty of power. Today after 1.5 hrs. tractor lost power- down to about idle. I thought fuel issue. Went and picked up new filters and my manual. Drained all fuel from tank and drained tank. Fresh fuel installed and new filters installed and bled. Engine started right up, runs smooth, but still running at about idle. Linkage working fine. Does this sound like a weak injection pump?
Thank you.
Weak injection pump, no. But it does sound like something gave way internally. Is the shaft moving with the linkage? If so, then it is an internal failure. Normally an injection pump that fails on pressure fails to run well at idle.
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Old 09-15-2010, 05:50 PM   post #3 of 57
norrod2009
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Default Re: Case 580 C. Running only at or about idle speed. Injection pump question?

Thank Don for the tip. It seems like the shaft is ok but I did not open it up/ break the seals. I wanted to get it towed out of the woods. I found out that the tractor is weaker and is dying after about 2-3 mins. It will restart but dies again in 2-3. I was able to tow it home and I am probably going to pull the injection pump for a rebuild since I am out of ideas. Thanks again for your response.
dn
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Old 09-16-2010, 02:37 PM   post #4 of 57
jdemaris
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Default Re: Case 580 C. Running only at or about idle speed. Injection pump question?

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It will restart but dies again in 2-3. I was able to tow it home and I am probably going to pull the injection pump for a rebuild since I am out of ideas. Thanks again for your response.
dn

That is a very common problem. You've got the Case engine, 207D with the model DB Stanadyne/Roosamaster rotary injection pump, correct? That pump has a piece of plastic in it that falls apart over time. Happens to all of them build before 1985. When it falls apart, it plugs the fuel return system. When that happens, the trottle does not always respond. And, the engine will start to lose power and quit, then start right fine, then quit again.

For someone with experience, it takes less then $50 in parts and an hour's work to fix the pump (not including taking it off and putting it back on).

To make it run, i.e. a short-term fix, all you have to do is this. Unhook the return fuel line where it connects to the pump. Then remove the steel fitting that line was hooked to. It screws into the pump's three-bolt cover. Once that fitting is off, run a drill bit or punch through it. It has a small ball and spring inside and it will be all plugged up. Just ream it out and remove the spring and ball. Then put back together. Or, just leave it out and you can drive the tractor with fuel spilling all over the place. What happens is, when that plastic breaks, little pieces (that look like mouse turds) plug up that fitting and cause the machine to die.
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Old 09-16-2010, 02:52 PM   post #5 of 57
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Default Re: Case 580 C. Running only at or about idle speed. Injection pump question?

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Originally Posted by norrod2009 View Post
It will restart but dies again in 2-3. I was able to tow it home and I am probably going to pull the injection pump for a rebuild since I am out of ideas.
#36 in this diagram is the valve that will be plugged.
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Old 09-30-2010, 04:29 PM   post #6 of 57
norrod2009
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Default Re: Case 580 C. Running only at or about idle speed. Injection pump question?

You were correct. Thanks.
Per Injection Service of West Chester (Cincinnati) Ohio my flex ring is damaged inside the pump. This was found on pump tear down. It caused small plugs of debris internally and the pump would not function properly. They gave the me the exact symptoms that I was having without knowing how my tractor had been acting. Hope this helps someone else.
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Oliver 1950T Diesel
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Old 09-30-2010, 04:50 PM   post #7 of 57
eddyyy302
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Default Re: Case 580 C. Running only at or about idle speed. Injection pump question?

jdemaris,
I work on the same machine on a farm that friends own, I just wanted to thank you for sharing that info, I had never heard it before and it is definitely valuable information!

Thanks,
Dan
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Old 09-30-2010, 04:52 PM   post #8 of 57
jdemaris
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Default Re: Case 580 C. Running only at or about idle speed. Injection pump question?

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Originally Posted by norrod2009 View Post
You were correct. Thanks.
Per Injection Service of West Chester (Cincinnati) Ohio my flex ring is damaged inside the pump.
I had to fix many, out in the field or woods, from the back of my service vehicle.

If you're paying a shop to fix it, I advise you have them eliminate that plastic ring. Most shops will NOT unless you ask. That ring is automatically eliminated on cars and trucks - I guess because they are highway vehicles and people complain more when they get stuck? Standayne stopped putting them into all highway vehicles in 1985, and insist all such older pumps be updated. No mandated update though for off-road stuff.

The part to eliminate that failure forever only costs $44 and I see it as a very good investment. Especially since so many people spend sometimes up to $800 for that repair that ought to cost $100.
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Old 12-18-2010, 07:44 PM   post #9 of 57
FGMB
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Default Re: Case 580 C. Running only at or about idle speed. Injection pump question?

I know this thread is old, but boy would I like to know more about fixing my 580C injection pump for a $100. Mine is surging right now from time to time, espescially after running the loader into the stone pile to scoop stuff up. Are you still around this forum jdemaris?

Jack
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Old 12-18-2010, 07:53 PM   post #10 of 57
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Default Re: Case 580 C. Running only at or about idle speed. Injection pump question?

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Are you still around this forum jdemaris?
He has'nt been on here since 11/1/10, Jack, but you might send him an e-mail and hopefully he will contact you. Just left click his user name and select send jdemaris an e-mail .
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Old 12-18-2010, 07:55 PM   post #11 of 57
FGMB
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Default Re: Case 580 C. Running only at or about idle speed. Injection pump question?

Wow, what a quick response, haha! Thanks a lot Jim, I'll try it.

Jack
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Old 12-18-2010, 09:10 PM   post #12 of 57
jdemaris
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Default Re: Case 580 C. Running only at or about idle speed. Injection pump question?

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Originally Posted by FGMB View Post
I know this thread is old, but boy would I like to know more about fixing my 580C injection pump for a $100. Mine is surging right now from time to time, espescially after running the loader into the stone pile to scoop stuff up. Are you still around this forum jdemaris?

Jack
What exactly do you want to know? It's funny thing about injection pumps. For some reason, many people believe that the average person should not dare touch the insides of one. I've gotten scolded many times for discussing how to repair them (not on this forum).

That being said, your pump is basically two hydraulic pumps joined together in one housing, with some controls and a distributor added.

The pump model you have does have a plastic damper that is prone to failure. When it does, the engine will surge now and then. Eventually it will start quitting, starting back up fine, and quitting again.

If you have mechanical skills, you can buy the parts for $20, get a full pump manual free in a pdf file, and fix yourself If you want to upgrade and eliminate the plastic forever, it costs an extra $50.

I haven't been coming to this forum much because it keeps forgetting I'm signed in, and asks me for my password, every 10 minutes. It drives me nuts. This is the only forum that does this (to me).
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Old 12-18-2010, 09:30 PM   post #13 of 57
FGMB
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Default Re: Case 580 C. Running only at or about idle speed. Injection pump question?

All right! Another guy who's always taking apart and fixing stuff he's not supposed to. I haven't met a mechanical device I havent dared to take apart.

Thanks for the reply man. Well, I have a Service manual for the machine, but it only tells you how to take out the pump. It also gives you a part number for a new pump. Thats great, but a rebult one is like $700 plus shipping.

So, I guess, if you didn't mind, where would I get the free pump manual PDF? Mine's a Roosamaster, saw that written today on it when I was messing with the brakes. Where do I buy the parts, and is there a kit, or do I need part #s or something? if so, which parts should I buy? Machine is a 1979 CASE 580C Backhoe Loader.

I'm pretty psyched about the possibility of fixing this thing, I really don't have the money for a new pump, and I really don't want this thing to suddenly idle only. The last job I drove it to took an hour to get there, and that was in 4th gear wide open. If I had to idle along in 1st gear, it would take me a week to get there!

Thanks a lot,

Jack
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Old 12-18-2010, 09:53 PM   post #14 of 57
jdemaris
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Default Re: Case 580 C. Running only at or about idle speed. Injection pump question?

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Thanks for the reply man. Well, I have a Service manual for the machine, but it only tells you how to take out the pump. It also gives you a part number for a new pump. Thats great, but a rebult one is like $700 plus shipping.

Tractor companies usually print the pump manuals separate. I don't remember how Case did it. I have the separate manuals printed by Deere and IH.

Send me a private email and I'll send you a link to download the complete Stanadyne/Roosamaster DB pump manual (you've got a DB pump). Manual is over 200 MB in size, so hopefully you're not on dial-up Net access. I'm on satellite-uplink here.

There are several places that sell the parts to anybody. A complete seal and small parts kit is around $15.

$700 doesn't get you a truly rebuilt pump. It will get you a pump that's been cleaned up, calbrated, and most major parts used as-is, with no renewal process. Basically $25-$50 new parts put in, that's all.

When I worked in a pump shop in the 1970s-1990s, all our parts came from Stanadyen or John Deere. Now, they are available aftermarket and much cheaper.

The following place gives me great service and sells to anyone. They will also let you download their catalog. Prices are from last year and have probably gone up a bit. You will at least need the seal kig and the brass bushing I listed.

www.usdiesel.com US Diesel in Fort Worth Texas.
800-328-0037.

JDB seal kit - Stanadyne # 24371 - Spaco U24371 $12.10
JDB pilot tube - Stanadyne # 16320 - Spaco U16320 $4.83
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Old 12-20-2010, 11:55 AM   post #15 of 57
eddyyy302
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Default Re: Case 580 C. Running only at or about idle speed. Injection pump question?

Jdemaris,
To answer your question about being asked for your password every 10 minutes. When you sign in at the top right of the screen with your username and password, click the box next to it that says "remember me?" that will keep you logged in until you manually log yourself out and you will not have to repeatedly type your password.

Dan
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