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Old 07-18-2010, 04:26 PM   post #1 of 14
junk_jivin38
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Default Sabre Fuel Solenoid question

So i got this Sabre recently...crankcase was full of water,which floated the oil into the carb, cylinder,air filter,etc...got it all cleaned out, changed the oil(filter for the 22R in my toyota fit it just fine),shot some gas in the cylinder and it fired up,till the gas ran out...checked for power at the solenoid on the carb bowl,and only 0.02 volts...what would be the cause of this?i have 12-14 volts at some other connectors,so its getting juice...also,still cant crank it with the key,have to jump the starter off the truck...any ideas where to look for the problem? also,is it possible to just use a bolt in place of the solenoid? or would it flood out?

i also was worried there may be water in the hydro,but i found the cap under the battery tray and its only full to halfway up the large gear,which i am assuming is the proper level??i didnt physically check the bottom for water,but im pretty sure its fine,or it would have been higher...
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Old 07-18-2010, 04:57 PM   post #2 of 14
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Default Re: Sabre Fuel Solenoid question

Was this in a flood and under water. it maybe the switch is shot and not working properly. Wonder if you ran a jumper lead to the shut off valve would it operate never been into the electrical side of things. Try checking the MTF liberty look for the Sears Tech service manual, there should be help there Craftsmen used Kohler motor and most of that info. should apply to your motor, as well. Everything in that manual is step by step on how to check so just because it says Craftsmen just put that to the side, and just use the motor section.

http://www.mytractorforum.com/images..._%20BOOK_1.pdf
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Old 07-18-2010, 05:19 PM   post #3 of 14
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Default Re: Sabre Fuel Solenoid question

not sure it was actually underwater,but it came from a guy who lives on a creek that flooded this spring,so its a very good possibility...

im gonna try checking the ignition switch,since it still wont crank with the key...i dont know much about all the switches and gadgets,either,but i sometimes get lucky...also gonna try a jumper to the solenoid and see what it does...

thanks for the help and im still open to suggestions
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Old 07-18-2010, 05:23 PM   post #4 of 14
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Default Re: Sabre Fuel Solenoid question

Check things that the solenoid and starter solenoid have in common - fuse, ignition switch, etc.
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Old 07-18-2010, 05:51 PM   post #5 of 14
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Default Re: Sabre Fuel Solenoid question

i jumped the solenoid directly to battery and it operates just fine...had to break for dinner,but goin back at it after a nice juicy steak...

for the record,its a 16 HP Briggs Vanguard
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Old 07-18-2010, 07:39 PM   post #6 of 14
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Default Re: Sabre Fuel Solenoid question

So,i ran a jumper wire from the battery to solenoid connection,had to wedge the connection at the carb to keep contact,so it appears the solenoid plug is bad...with the jumper in place,the starter clicks,but wont turn over...so,theres still a wiring or other issue between the switch and engine harness...i did get it running,and it ran great for about 5 minutes,until i pulled the wedge out of the solenoid plug and it quit...im broke and out of work with a shoulder injury,so i gotta be absolutely sure i need a part before i buy it...
i did engage the hydro and it moved forward and back with no problems,so im definitely gonna fix it up and run it...so far,i havent got a nickel in it,so im within budget so far...

i know i will need rear tires...20x8.00 , right front wheel bearing is gone and a hose clamp on the axle keeps the wheel on...left wheel has a good bit of play in it as well...most likely the fuel solenoid will need replacement,and a new battery...blades need sharpening and a pulley is welded to its spindle,though that looks to be usable as-is for now...and of course , i gotta track down the wiring problem...anyone know a dollar figure on these parts? got used ones for sale? please let me know..

thanks for the help so far
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Old 07-18-2010, 09:17 PM   post #7 of 14
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Default Re: Sabre Fuel Solenoid question

Have you checked all the grounds - especially the engine-to-frame and frame-to-battery grounds? They are often overlooked, and just as important as the hot side leads.
From what I've read, the carb solenoids are expen$ive. I believe that you can cut the tip of the valve off to defeat the fuel shutoff. You may get after running or backfire on shutdown, however. Others know more about that than I do. You could also replace the solenoid with a bolt, I think.
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Old 07-24-2010, 01:49 PM   post #8 of 14
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Default Re: Sabre Fuel Solenoid question

checked a few things today...still got the jumper to the fuel cutoff,ill probably cut the plunger off that,unless i find a good one cheap...the starter spins now with the key,but doesnt engage...put the voltmeter on the starter relay,and only 6.5 volts while cranking,so i guess the relay is bad...

i jumped the starter and ran it for awhile,and it was smoking pretty good...i assume this is from all the water and oil that was inside the motor, will that work its way out? or do i have to tear stuff apart?i was afraid it was gonna burn up,so i didnt dare run it too long.. i still have some water/oil mix blowing out the breather tube...

i probably should change the oil and filter again,but wonder if i should wait until i get the rest of the gunk out?

any suggestions?
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Old 07-24-2010, 02:14 PM   post #9 of 14
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Default Re: Sabre Fuel Solenoid question

I would take the starter apart, and let it dry in the sun for a few days, or in a very low temperature oven (150*F). The drive is probably gummed up, too, so disassembly is a good idea.
Which side of the solenoid were you measuring the voltage on? Battery side or starter side?
Smoke from your starter is not a good sign. I hope you didn't burn anything up in there.
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Old 07-25-2010, 08:19 AM   post #10 of 14
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Default Re: Sabre Fuel Solenoid question

I coulda worded that differently...the smoke was from the engine, not the starter, and it was a lot of smoke...was wondering if its ok to just keep running it till it clears up,or if that would cause damage? im no mechanic,so i have to learn things the hard way (or ask dumb questions on MTF) could this just be oil in the muffler?

i checked the voltage at both terminals on the relay under the seat,as well as at the starter...15v at the battery side,and varying reading at the other as well as at the starter,with 6.5v the highest reading...when i jump the starter off my truck,it engages and starts right up...

still havent found the reason for no power to the fuel cutoff...all the grounds look ok,no rust on any ground connections...i did find the hot wire for the seat switch was pinched in the deck lift mechanism...spliced that and nothing changed
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Old 07-25-2010, 06:25 PM   post #11 of 14
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Default Re: Sabre Fuel Solenoid question

You seem to be getting quite a voltage drop across the solenoid. If the connections are all clean and tight, the solenoid is defective. Some of them come apart, so you can clean the contacts. Others are sealed, and replacement is indicated.
If you haven't already, take the cables off the solenoid and clean all of the contact surfaces so that they are shiny, and try again.

If the solenoid wire was pinched, chances are it took out a fuse or some other aspect of the circuit - like the ignition switch itself. Follow the wire back and check along the way for voltage or lack of voltage. Might be a connector that couldn't take the short circuit current and gave out before the fuse went. Might be the ignition switch.
If the engine starts right up when you jump it off your truck, the solenoid must be getting power, no?
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Old 07-25-2010, 07:23 PM   post #12 of 14
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Default Re: Sabre Fuel Solenoid question

I say sell it for what you can and move on. If the engine had enough water to float oil into the carb and such, it's probably done for. You're bound to have untold electrical problems forever.

If you're determined to try, you need to drain that hydro, period. "doesn't look like" and "level seems ok" doesn't cut it. That engine needs to be drained, flushed, and repeated several times until you see no water or milky oil coming out. After that, it's still probably going to smoke like a chimney, because your rings are likely rusted to **** from sitting in the water, and it could easily be full of silt, also. If you're lucky, it'll just stay smoking, and they won't break or score the cylinder walls.

There's a reason flooded vehicles are totaled, even when they do work ok after. You're beginning to find out why. You're looking at putting a good chunk of money into that thing, only to have an engine or hydro go later.

With the financial situation you describe, I just don't see this as being a smart move, sorry.
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Old 07-25-2010, 08:57 PM   post #13 of 14
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Default Re: Sabre Fuel Solenoid question

Well,i got it to start and run on its own power,with the key...removed the cables from the relay,cleaned and sanded...did the same with all the grounds...pulled the ignition switch and found a couple of blades were 'bridged' by a bit of rust/corrosion...cleaned that up,charged the original battery,and she fired right up...had to fiddle with the fuel cutoff wire,till i got a solid connection,so now everything is working as it should be,and nothing has been bypassed...

after an unexpected shower today,i decided the water got in through the louvers on the hood,right into the engine...im keeping a bag under the hood as well as a tarp over it for now....there was no other sign of water elsewhere,only in the engine,so it was definitely not underwater...

i put the deck on and it works fine,all that remains is the oil issue,which im gonna work on this week...i still have $0.00 into this thing,so i aint ready to give up yet...gonna drain and flush a few times and go from there...whats the best thing to flush with? or better yet,the cheapest?

what type fluid does the hydro take? and how full should it be?...i will probably drain that,at least to verify there is no water in it
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Old 07-25-2010, 09:24 PM   post #14 of 14
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Default Re: Sabre Fuel Solenoid question

I would probably use some isopropyl alcohol, or some such thing that will absorb the water. I would let it dry out really well, then after you put oil in, turn it over slowly by hand, or pulling the plug wire at first, to let it get oil on it before cranking it up.

As for the hydro, no clue.
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