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Old 04-06-2010, 11:08 AM   post #1 of 7
jerry_nj
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Default Changing Starter on 16 HP Vanguard

My neighbor has a 15 year old Simplicity Lawn Tractor with a premium B&S 16 HP Twin Vanguard engine. The starter, or the drive gear, has gone bad, the starter sounds like it is spinning with a slight clashing noise. I posted a question on the MTF Small Engine forum, but now I am looking for some Simplicity specific advice.

The started is just in front of the oil fill/check tub, and it appears it has two hold down bolts that fun the full length of the starter, with the "nut head" on the bottom. Going by feel the bolts appear to be 5/16th (unless metric, and I assume not) but even with a 1/4" socket I was unable in a few minutes try to get in a position to turn the bolts. I did notice a hole/opening in the tractor frame (body) that would provide some access from underneath.

I gave up as I had to go home to get other tools. What I have in mind is using a long 1/4" extension with a double elbow (not sure what that unit is called) on the end connecting to the socket. Then, drive the socket from below the tractor, lots of room, being careful to keep the elbow within its range of rotation.

Does the above sound like a workable strategy, or better, any advice on how to do by someone who has done the job. I have changed starters before on other engines and the job took only a few minutes... all in how difficult it is to get to the #$@* bolt heads.
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1989 Craftsman LT 12 HP 38" 2-blade deck - Retired

1993 Craftsman GT6000 18 HP B&S twin L-head 44" 3-blade deck, - Avatar and duty GT
2005 Craftsman DYT4000 42" 2-blade deck - B&S 18.5 Intek - new head gasket twice in 500 hr. Was hit by a Pine tree blown down by Hurricane Sandy Oct.2012. But I now have the PYT9000 and a real mowing machine
2011 Craftsman PYT9000 B&S 26 HP Professional and 46" 2-blade deck. Wife said "ANOTHER TRACTOR?"
I replied "Yep"
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Old 04-06-2010, 08:10 PM   post #2 of 7
rscurtis
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Default Re: Changing Starter on 16 HP Vanguard

Briggs sells a special socket for that application. I'll see if I can find mine tomorrow and either get you a description or a PN.
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Old 04-06-2010, 08:20 PM   post #3 of 7
jerry_nj
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Default Re: Changing Starter on 16 HP Vanguard

Thanks, I did get the two bolts lose, using a 5/16" short open end wrench to break the bolts lose, then a 5/16th socket with a ratchet head (just a round, about 1.5" diameter, socket driver) to crank the bolts down. A box end wrench would have been better, but I don't have one... may get one.

I ran into some other questions and posted them on the "small engine forum" as the question is B&S Vanguard, not specifically Simplicity (other than the way Simplicity mounted the engine - a couple of inches could have been made available... the fact there is a special tool attests to that.

Well, given the helpful response from a "man who has been there" here on the Simplicity I will make a duplicate post of what I put on the small engine forum... yes, I know not to make multiple posts of the same material, this introduction makes the material different
---
Looking for more removal advice.

I removed, with a lot of difficulty due to no space, the two long light bolts (5/16th head and about 6" long running from the bottom of the starter to top), and the starter back and case dropped a couple of inches to the tractor engine "frame". This exposed the armature which seems to be stuck, I give a soft pry with a large screw driver and it wouldn't drop. Does this suggest anything, e.g., the gear is locked into the flywheel?

I started to pull the head shroud which covers the flywheel and the cooling fan, I believe. I stopped when this simple operation became a little uncooperative. The shroud seems stuck, or I am missing a hold down bolt or two. I have removed engine shrouds on other B&S engines, so I know I should be able to do it. But as it wasn't coming off with a simple effort I decided to check in here and ask if I should be trying to take it off, or did I miss something important in trying to disconnect the starter
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1989 Craftsman LT 12 HP 38" 2-blade deck - Retired

1993 Craftsman GT6000 18 HP B&S twin L-head 44" 3-blade deck, - Avatar and duty GT
2005 Craftsman DYT4000 42" 2-blade deck - B&S 18.5 Intek - new head gasket twice in 500 hr. Was hit by a Pine tree blown down by Hurricane Sandy Oct.2012. But I now have the PYT9000 and a real mowing machine
2011 Craftsman PYT9000 B&S 26 HP Professional and 46" 2-blade deck. Wife said "ANOTHER TRACTOR?"
I replied "Yep"
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Old 04-07-2010, 05:23 PM   post #4 of 7
rscurtis
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Default Re: Changing Starter on 16 HP Vanguard

Here is the info I promised, albeit somewhat too late to help you. The Briggs p/n is 19353. It is a 13MM flex socket with 1/4 inch drive. It is made by Snap-On, probably not something you'll find at Sears or HD. The SO # is TMUM13. As I recall, it was quite pricey.
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Old 04-07-2010, 07:57 PM   post #5 of 7
jerry_nj
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Default Re: Changing Starter on 16 HP Vanguard

Thanks, I've yet to remove the starter, so you are not too late on my schedule/results. As it turns out I screwed up and removed the two starter case bolts, and likely released the brushes... not sure as the room was limited enough to prevent the case to drop more than a couple of inches. I plan to push it back up and start the long small bolts to just hold it together until I can get it removed.

My problem now is finding the mounting bolts, the ones that uses the socket you describe, I believe. Do I have to go from the top to get those bolts? That is remove the fan cover (shroud) - if so does the tool you describe allow removing the bolts without the need to remove the flywheel, is that the goal? Or, are the bolts accessible from outside the fan cover... that's what I experience in the last starter I changed about 12 years ago on a Sears 12 HP Tecum (sp?). I haven been back to the tractor to work on it today, but as I recall there appears to be some kind of cover above the starter that may provide access if removed. I pulled on it a bit the other night but didn't make much progress there either.
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1989 Craftsman LT 12 HP 38" 2-blade deck - Retired

1993 Craftsman GT6000 18 HP B&S twin L-head 44" 3-blade deck, - Avatar and duty GT
2005 Craftsman DYT4000 42" 2-blade deck - B&S 18.5 Intek - new head gasket twice in 500 hr. Was hit by a Pine tree blown down by Hurricane Sandy Oct.2012. But I now have the PYT9000 and a real mowing machine
2011 Craftsman PYT9000 B&S 26 HP Professional and 46" 2-blade deck. Wife said "ANOTHER TRACTOR?"
I replied "Yep"
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Old 04-07-2010, 08:13 PM   post #6 of 7
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Default Re: Changing Starter on 16 HP Vanguard

Ok, I looked on the Snap On site and found the tool number
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item....store&tool=all

I can say I have the double jointed socket connector in 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 inch sizes, but they need more room. As said, I'm behind in the game and haven't yet even found the bolts. Boy do I feel ...
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1989 Craftsman LT 12 HP 38" 2-blade deck - Retired

1993 Craftsman GT6000 18 HP B&S twin L-head 44" 3-blade deck, - Avatar and duty GT
2005 Craftsman DYT4000 42" 2-blade deck - B&S 18.5 Intek - new head gasket twice in 500 hr. Was hit by a Pine tree blown down by Hurricane Sandy Oct.2012. But I now have the PYT9000 and a real mowing machine
2011 Craftsman PYT9000 B&S 26 HP Professional and 46" 2-blade deck. Wife said "ANOTHER TRACTOR?"
I replied "Yep"
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Old 04-10-2010, 10:07 PM   post #7 of 7
jerry_nj
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Default Re: Changing Starter on 16 HP Vanguard

I did pull the starter a couple of days ago. I tried a universal joint on a 1/4" extension and couldn't get the front hold down bolt. I then tried the cut a socket down to make it shorter. The bolt is 1/2" and I use a 1/4" drive socket with about half of its length cut off. I just fit behind the exposed (whatever) part of the armature that blocked direct access to the bolt. I haven't reinstalled yet as I'm still waiting for the part to arrive.

I found the starter very strange, with the exposed parts B&S has to put a additional cover over the top of the starter, hiding the hold down bolts. It wasn't until I got down on my knees to look up at the starter that I saw the cover bolt. Overall, this was the hardest to change starter I've ever done, albeit all but one on a Sears Lawn Tractor were on cars.
__________________
1989 Craftsman LT 12 HP 38" 2-blade deck - Retired

1993 Craftsman GT6000 18 HP B&S twin L-head 44" 3-blade deck, - Avatar and duty GT
2005 Craftsman DYT4000 42" 2-blade deck - B&S 18.5 Intek - new head gasket twice in 500 hr. Was hit by a Pine tree blown down by Hurricane Sandy Oct.2012. But I now have the PYT9000 and a real mowing machine
2011 Craftsman PYT9000 B&S 26 HP Professional and 46" 2-blade deck. Wife said "ANOTHER TRACTOR?"
I replied "Yep"
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