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John Deere 165 Hydro,,, wont move !!!

48K views 32 replies 12 participants last post by  BoWoggie 
#1 ·
Hi, I just bought a very used 165 hydro, I jumped some safety sw. to get it to turn over and got her running. Kawasaki engine. sounds good. It wont move though. belt is spinning the pump pulley, the fan blades are all broken off, the fluid was high. I drained the pump(allen plug beneath) got about 1 1/2 pints, yet the fluid level on top remained. Is the pump shot? can they be rebuilt? or a used one? Thanks in advance, Mike
 
#4 ·
That's for "free wheeling" ie: puts tranny in (N) so you can push it around easy, look under the tractor and move level to see if you can engage the shaft. Another long shot, with tractor running and in forward see if axle shaft is turning, could be a broken key between axle and wheel hub, but play with that free wheeling shaft first, Good Luck :fing32:

P.S. :MTF_wel2:
 
#5 ·
my has a 165 the drive belt broke he removed the rear wheel to get to it got the belt on tractor would not move kept checking things and when he took the wheel off he lost a key replaced key and it moved fine had samething happen with a craftsman lt
 
#9 ·
ok, I'll ck it out tomorrow, I'm pretty sure the "freewheeling pin" is out, I moved the lever back and forth and saw it go in and out, I wish I has a manual to see the components on the axle/hub assemblies though. Thanks for all you help so far. It would be great if this hydro /pump wasn't toast and just a keyway broken.
 
#10 ·
Don't know if this helps. ( key out) The key must be on both axles to move. but it will be a miracle if you can get both wheels off, but if you can't then the keys are probably there.


 
#11 ·
Hey Bonneybear,

Here's the parts diagram for the diff and rear axle on the 165, and the parts diagram for the rear wheels... Not as good as a manual, but possibly helpful... Its free, too, from the JD online parts catalog

Hope it helps you somewhat!


1 E50101 LOCK NUT 2 (SUB FOR M63277)
2 24H1224 WASHER 1 11/32" X 1" X 1/16"
3 M47318 LEVER 1
4 19H1791 CAP SCREW 2 1/4" X 1-1/4"
5 M41028 PIN 4
6 M83290 HOLDER 1
7 M47317 REINFORCEMENT 1
8 M84325 BRAKE DISK 1
9 M47316 PAD 2
10 M84323 WASHER 1
Cart KEY PART NO. PART NAME QTY SERIAL NO. REMARKS
11 M41042 SPUR GEAR 1
12 M84321 SHAFT 1
13 M40378 WASHER 2
14 JD9807 NEEDLE BEARING 2
15 M84322 GASKET 1
16 AM38840 HOUSING 1
17 M84125 GASKET 1
18 15H623 PIPE PLUG 2 3/8"
19 AM38841 NEEDLE BEARING 1
20 M40375 SHAFT 1
Cart KEY PART NO. PART NAME QTY SERIAL NO. REMARKS
21 M41044 SPUR GEAR 1
22 M40377 BUSHING 1
23 M40514 SNAP RING 2
24 M70160 BEVEL GEAR 2
25 M41747 CRADLE 1
26 JD9824 THRUST BEARING 4
27 12H302 LOCK WASHER 4 1/4"
28 19H2333 CAP SCREW 4 1/4" X 2-1/4", BRAKE
29 M84320 AXLE 1 374 MM (14-23/32") LONG
30 M41740 BUSHING 4
Cart KEY PART NO. PART NAME QTY SERIAL NO. REMARKS
31 AM38845 HOUSING 1
32 M40676 SEAL 3
33 M41128 STRAP 2
34 M45981 RING GEAR 1
35 M70159 BEVEL GEAR 2
36 M40381 PIN 1
37 M41746 CRADLE 1
38 M70326 AXLE 1 333 MM (13-7/64") LONG
39 AM38844 HOUSING 1
40 AM38842 COVER 1
Cart KEY PART NO. PART NAME QTY SERIAL NO. REMARKS
41 AM38843 NEEDLE BEARING 1
42 37H154 SCREW 10 1/4" X 1"
43 M83291 BRACKET 1
44 M80210 WASHER 2
45 AM102392 DIFFERENTIAL 1 (PEERLESS MODEL 1319-B)
46 19H1731 CAP SCREW 3 3/8" X 1"
47 12H310 LOCK WASHER 3 3/8"
48 26H26 SHAFT KEY 2 1/4" X 1-1/8"




1 AM30346 TIRE VALVE STEM 2 (INCLUDES CAP) (SUB AM30795)
2 W23122 SNAP RING 2 X (SUB FOR M40808)
M40514 SNAP RING 2 X X
3 AM101775 RIM 2 X
AM101778 RIM 2 X
AM101776 WHEEL 2 - 431847 X 8 X 7 (USES M81919 CAP)
AM104391 WHEEL 2 431848 - X 8 X 7 (USES M72752 CAP)
4 24H1448 WASHER 3 X 1-1/32" X 1-1/2" X 0.120", (L.H. ONLY)
M41361 WASHER 2 X X
5 M90065 CAP 2 X X
Cart KEY PART NO. PART NAME QTY SERIAL NO. 130 160 165 REMARKS
M81919 CAP 2 - 431847 X 1.62" I.D. - USE WITH AM101776 WHEEL
M72752 CAP 2 431848 - X 1.50" I.D. - USE WITH AM104391 WHEEL
6 M41361 WASHER AR X X
7 24H1746 WASHER AR X X 25/32" X 1-1/8" X 0.120"
24H1441 WASHER AR X 1-1/64" X 1-1/2" X 0.048"
8 M42183 CAP 1 X X X CHROME (PACKAGE OF TWO)
.. M80369 TIRE 2 X X (18X8.5-8) GOODYEAR, SOF-TRAC
.. M91456 TIRE 2 X X (18X8.5-8) TURF GARD (CARLISLE)
.. M78506 TIRE 2 X X (18X8.5-8) GOODYEAR SOF-TRAC RS (ROUND SHOULDER)
.. M82397 TIRE 2 X (18X6.5-8) GOODYEAR SOF-TRAC
Cart KEY PART NO. PART NAME QTY SERIAL NO. 130 160 165 REMARKS
.. M91455 TIRE 2 X (18X6.5-8) TURFGARD (CARLISLE)
.. M82713 INNERTUBE 2 R6.5 X 8 INDUSTRIAL COMBINATION FOR 18 X 8.5 X 8 AND 18 X 6.5 X 8 TIRES
 
#13 ·
Ok, after jacking it up and rolling each side, I figured the Right side was the culprit, I pulled the R, rear wheel, and sure enough the key was missing, or dissolved?, I drained the rest of the oil in the hydro, I'll get a key tomorrow and install it. What kind of oil goes in the hydro fill under the seat? sae 30 motor oil??? Thanks everyone for there help, I'll keep you posted. Mike
 
#14 ·
I suspect since you could just take off the RR wheel, it had been off before and the PO forgot to put back the key. ??
 
#33 ·
Yes they defiantly get frozen to the shaft. This is how I had to remove the L R wheel from my 165 hydro last year. I needed to get it off to address an issue with the brake. If and when you get the left side off, go through your braking system and make sure it is freed up. There are 2 small bolts holding the caliper assembly to the housing. Be sure to soak these bolts with PB Blaster or another good rust eater, and SLOWLY AND GENTLY, work these bolts lose. ( Don't ask how I know) Once the caliper is off there is a brake "shoe" and a small metal spacer that will probably fall out. Don't lose them, and replace them as they came out. You said you had to by pass switches in order to get it to start. My "clutch/brake" switch was not fully depressing, and there is no adjustment that I can find. I slipped a 1/4" hose over the rod that depresses the switch, and then slipped a 1/2" hose over the 1/4. That got the switch depressed far enough to make the circuit. But back to removing the wheel. I had to cut the tire off, ( was not much good anyway ) and the cut the wheel itself in half with a sawzall and my air chisel. Then split the wheel open with a series of chisels. That may sound pretty harsh, but I tried for days to get it off, and it would not budge. I am probably going to have to do the same with the R R this spring. I cut it at the key way, so there would be less material to have to cut through
 

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#16 ·
Holy cow!!! it worked,,, I put the woodruff key in .89 cents, filled the pump w/sae30. that was actually hard , I had to remove body/fenders and gas tank and fill it through the top vent. 5 minutes later I was sitting on the tank driving it around my yard. you guys ROCK!!!!. Thanks.
I'm putting a parts list together now to finish it. let me know if I'm missing anything or if I'm going overboard.
1. green paint.
2. Hydro plastic fan
3. Idler pulley,frozen for the hydro
4. Brake safety sw, I have it jumped now
5. Electric pto clutch, it stalls engine when engaged. I'll start a new thread for this.
6. Oh yeah, yellow duct tape for the ripped seat. :thanku:
 
#17 ·
I'm putting a parts list together now to finish it. let me know if I'm missing anything or if I'm going overboard.
1. green paint.
2. Hydro plastic fan
3. Idler pulley,frozen for the hydro
4. Brake safety sw, I have it jumped now
5. Electric pto clutch, it stalls engine when engaged. I'll start a new thread for this.
6. Oh yeah, yellow duct tape for the ripped seat. :thanku:[/QUOTE]

6. GG Steve would say you are going overboard using "YELLOW" duct tape :biglaugh:
2. You have no choice if you want to keep the Hydro
4. We don't speak of defeating safety switches on MTF. Easy fix, although it is riveted on. I bolted my new one.
 
#20 ·
Sorcery, hmmmmmm, didn't try that. I just filled the flat with fix-a-flat, and then when on vaca. it's flat again :( I'll try all the suggestions, I cant think of a puller that would work. maybe block inside of wheel with long 2x4 to a wall, then hit the axle through....?
 
#21 ·
That its basically what we did. We heated front and back of the wheel then I held and pulled a 2X6 against the inside wheel and frame, and my buddy tapped ( :ROF ) the axle. Some how the tranny wasn't affected.
No way am I suggesting this method to anyone, do what you want to your own machine. ( Legal Dept. Sgt. Schultz).:dunno:
 
#22 ·
I have a similar problem to this old 2012 post. My John Deere 165 Hydro barely goes forward or reverse.

It was working last summer before I put it away for winter, and I was delighted when it started right up on the first try of this 2018 season. However my celebration was short lived when I tried to move it. It made a slight effort to go into forward or reverse, but then stopped.

I pulled off the mower deck and checked that the belt looks fine and properly tensioned. The fan on the right side spins with the moving belt. I checked the oil in the transaxle case and in the upper filler port.

I called the local JD repair guy, who guessed that it might be a frozen idler. I also read (below) that it might be a missing key on the wheel. But nothing of the discussion sounds exactly like my problem. Most peculiar is the fact that today (after sitting for a week) I was able to get it to go forward and drive up a slight hill and back down, but whenever I tried to get it into reverse it only gave the usual half-hearted response then stopped. By the time I drove it back to the house it had again lost both forward and reverse.

I did play with the free-wheeling lever, which seemed to function as expected. Perhaps moving this lever is what coaxed it tractor to go in forward.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated. Thanks.
 
#23 ·
I would work the freewheeling lever a bunch of times if working it once gave you forward direction, I would bet it isn't fully set in position to force flow in the hydro. It may need some lubricant (silicone spray) in there to help it move. Don't let the silicone spray go all over though!
 
#25 ·
Thanks PA318Guy and Cdndeerefan. There does seems to be a correlation between moving the freewheel lever and the hydro response, but it's very subtle and unpredictable. I slid under the tractor and watched the movement of the freewheel linkage while moving the lever. Although a bit rusted, it seemed to go through its full range of travel. I sprayed it liberally with WD40, and worked it back and forth for a long time. Apparently as a result, the tractor responded by moving both forward and reverse. Again I was able to drive it up a slight incline next to my house and I did a few circuits of my yard. But after shifting to neutral, I had almost no reverse and forward was feeble. I then worked the freewheel lever again, and was able to go forward and reverse with greater power, but it didn't last. Every so often I would again lose power. But when I stopped and wiggled the freewheel lever, it would restore power for a little while.

I looked for some kind of travel adjustment of the freewheel linkage, but saw nothing that would allow the freewheel arm to move more than its present limit. What else is involved here? Perhaps stripped gears where the freewheel arm articulates with the transmission?

Or could it be a fluid level problem? My tractor doesn't have a dipstick in the transmission filler port under the seat (unlike the photo in my manual on page 49, which shows a dipstick extending from the cap). Instead there is a 4"-long flexible diaphragm, like a finger from a thick rubber glove that sits down in the throat of the filler tube. Several days ago when I checked the fluid with a clean stick it came out dry (but I could not push it very far into the throat). I tried adding 30W oil, but it didn't take much to overflow it. So now I may have too much oil in the transmission. Has anyone had a similar experience? Could this be related to the shifting problem?

Better, but no cigar!
 
#27 ·
Thanks no2498. I tried your suggestion. However the pedal seemed to be up against its upper stop, at the far limit of travel where it normally is fully engaged. (Couldn't pull it up any farther.) Nevertheless I followed your instructions of pushing and side stepping many times.

The result was just as subtle as jiggling the freewheel lever. Perhaps there was a slight improvement. Now, each time I put it in gear it goes forward, but not quite as strong as in past years. Then, when I stop and try reverse, it goes back a couple yards then weakens and stops, or gives a very feeble crawl. And if I shift back into forward it moves, but at a slower pace until somehow it "warms up" after about 10 seconds then returns to the "new normal" forward speed. This same pattern can be repeated several times.

Bottom line: I now have a diminished but reliable forward gear, so I can use my old JD-165 for mowing again this season. (I'm hoping that with continued use whatever has been stuck over winter will become more loose and responsive.) Still would like to know the exact cause and effect here. I'm also eager to hear from anyone who has the same type of transmission fluid filler cap, and learn how you determine the correct fluid level without a proper dipstick.
 

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#29 ·
Thanks John,
I had decided to use it in its present state, but now that I've had the mower deck off for a couple weeks to deal with the transmission problem, I can't seem to get the deck back on. Just spent a couple hours cursing and skinning my knuckles. Guess I've got to watch some YouTube videos for a refresher. (sigh!) -Craig
 
#30 ·
This is slightly off-topic (reattaching the mower deck), but it's the continuing saga of my transmission problem posted earlier...

Although my search for a web-based tutorial video for my 165 Hydro found no exact matches, I found enough videos for newer model tractors that I should be able to figure out how to reattach the mower deck. Also consulted my Operations Manual, which gives a few photos, and and over-simplified instruction for replacing the mowing deck. I realize that I forgot to disengage the belt tensioner lever when removing & trying to replace the deck. This will give me more freedom to match all the hanger pins. The bigger problem is that I parked the tractor on very irregular ground under the shelter of a broad roof overhang to get out of the rain. I tried to compensate for this uneven terrain by shimming the deck with scraps of wood, but it has made it much harder to align everything.

In my search for instructional videos I found a nice YouTube about replacing the fluids in the transmission and hydrostatic unit of the JD 165 Hydro:
This mentions a common airlock problem when filling 30-W oil in the upper transmission filler tube. (see previous post) He offers method of avoiding the airlock by using a bleeder port, but this requires removing the rear chassis and seat! He also confirms using 30W oil in the upper filler and 90W gear oil in the lower unit, which is hard-to-find information.

I'll give the mower deck another try once the rail stops and things dry out. Thanks again for your help.
 
#32 · (Edited)
No long before JD even thought of that.
I bet it looks like this..........
Back brackets up and pin.

Height brackets ( hang on tractor first ) in the 2 holes in center. Adjuster is "J" shaped

Front brackets in frame with a steel rod with pins. ( try middle holes first)

This is as rusty a deck I would install on mine. :tango_face_wink:



FYI did you notice the double pulley are on wrong?? ( big pulley on top !!!)
 
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