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Installing 50K Solar at my Business

13K views 50 replies 23 participants last post by  DJ in WV 
#1 ·
As some of you may know already, I'm the co-owner of a machine shop/manufacturing company. My building is about 20,000 sq. ft. and we use a ton of electric due to the amount of machinery we have, especially CNC lathes and mills. We have explored using solar energy in the past, but the cost has always been quite prohibitive. That changed this year through the confluence of our energy provider, and our local, state and federal governments offering thus before unavailable incentives. For the first time, it seemed doable and we jumped at the opportunity.

I'd like to share the installation and implementation process with you, through pics(I took a lot, as I was fascinated by the whole process) and explanation, in my layman's terms. From where I stood previously, I learned quite a bit about how solar energy works with the existing grid. At times through the process, I couldn't help but to think back to my dad's shop growing up. He had truck fab/mechanic shop. It had the bare essentials. Hot and dusty in the summer and cold as, well you know, in the winter. We had an old rusty salamander heater that we fed with whatever waste oil we could drain out of engines, rear ends, etc. that we had laying around. In my experience, they burned dirty and were apt to "go up" at any time. In my father's eye's, he was spoiling us, lol. Here's a pic of one:



Just kind of made me smile at what he might think of how far things have come, if he was still around. Anyhow, enough about that. Here's some pics of the material delivery. And yes, I asked numerous times if I could run the crane. That thing was so cool! I was told "no". Something about insurance stuff :banghead3 Some pics:







These boxes contain the solar panels.



This photo shows the bottom support rails. In the back are the square cement anchoring slabs. "Saddles" are placed across the bottom rails and loaded with the cement slabs. There are no hard fasteners in the system, just the shear weight of the cement. I was kind of relieved at this, as I just installed a new roof earlier in the year. I was told this system can withstand 140 MPH winds.



These rails then go on over the bottom rail system and the solar panels are then attached to them.



The next group of photos will show the panels installed, the wiring done to tie into our system and the grid, the "brain" and the metering system.
 
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#3 ·
My employer also went solar this year. We can generate 120KW of power at peak sunshine levels in the summer. Panels were installed on the roofs of 3 buildings. On a really good day, we generate more than we use, plus the electricity generated when we are closed on weekends and holidays all goes on the grid.
 
#4 ·
Very nice!
Post some photos of the control and distribution panel when you can.
 
#6 ·
First, CONGRATULATIONS! That is a big investment and it will pay dividends in the future.

I'm really looking forward to seeing the rest of the system.

Thanks for sharing this with us! :fing32:
 
#7 ·
Thanks for posting this. It is a topic we all are interested in and will enjoy following even through the after-installation-how-it-works part. :thThumbsU
 
#8 ·
Looks great Ellis, and I for one am glad things lined up for your company to make the investment.:woohoo1:
 
#10 ·
We found out during the recent storm caused power outage that my employer's solar panels still generate electricity when the grid is down, but not 3-phase. So all the lights worked fine, but no welding or running any heavy fabrication machinery.
 
#12 ·
This group of pics shows the roof portion of the job completed. The installers did a very neat job of it, IMO. Some pics:

The panels covered a bit more than half the roof.



These are close ups of the system. As I said earlier, there are no hard fasteners. The blocks shown anchor the panels with their weight.





Individual solar panel wires converge into these black boxes, and then run through very neatly laid out conduit, which run to the DC disconnect box on the roof's edge.







Next I'll have pics of "Control Central". It's pretty cool.
 
#13 ·
Looks great! Can't wait to see the finale pics. How much weight do you think you added to the roof?
 
#15 ·
Very professional looking installation for sure.

Same thing I was wondering, any chance of the mounts eventually working their way through the roofing membrane?......Mike
Honestly Mike, I don't know how much the system weighs. Before you are approved for your system size, your structure is inspected to determine how much load it can bear. So, at least I know that whatever it does weigh, it shouldn't be landing in my shop :praying:

Underneath each aluminum footing is a pad to prevent roof damage.

Tomorrow I should have some pics of the DC to AC converter, power service and, brace yourself, the remote output monitor :trink39:
 
#16 ·
It's been a while since I posted, but I thought I'd fill you in how things are working out with our solar power system. This is a picture of the converter. It takes the DC power produced by the panels and converts them into the AC used in the shop. The way I understand it, there is a loss during this process of roughly 20%. As a result the 50K system produces a max of 40K usable. Power produced during hours when my business is closed, is banked and I'm credited when they are needed. I like this better than selling to the utility, as I receive dollar for dollar value. Thus far, and bear in mind this is the worst season for production, we are saving a little over 30% on our electric bill :fing32: Very happy with the results.

The converter.....



This readout lets you see current and time based average production....

 
#17 ·
Sweet! Looking forward to a long-term review of how this technology is working out. :thThumbsU
 
#19 ·
I'm dr o o o l i ng Ellis.:ROF

Nice to see a business taking hold of some of what's available. :congrats::)
 
#22 ·
It's my understanding that heat loss plays a large role in that, Paul. The converter itself is exhausted, and you can definitely feel the heat being emitted. Fortunately, because of our building size, etc., the overall effect is minimal.

Ellis,
Excellent job!

Can you comment on the logistics of purchasing this system? For instance, did you or the installer need to file a plan with the local building department along with obtaining permits to complete the work?

Yes, they did.

What about insurance for your own building? Did you increase your coverage to include replacement of this system, did it increase your premium?

Yes, it was added, but not at great cost.

What about maintenance?

None to my knowledge, other than periodic visual inspection :fing32:

As part of the package, did the seller and/or installer provide any warranty over the system for the first year or more?

It is guaranteed for 10 years. System life is estimated to be 25 years though.

How do you think heavy snow might impact the output of the system?

Good question, I would think that there would have to be some effect until there is melt off. Anyone with any knowledge out there with this?

I hope you don’t mind my questions.

Oh no, not at all, fire away!

Thanks,
Danco
 
#43 ·
OK, here is one for you... That 20% loss... does that go away as heat??
Inverters made for grid-tie setups have to make almost perfect sine-wave current. Any that I know of are rated 91%-96% efficient - i.e. there's 4%-9% loss that goes to heat. My house and farm are 100% on solar with twin Outback inverters.

I have no idea why this guy's system is supposed to have 20% loss. That's something I've never heard of. I've got three places on solar. Two have Outback inverters and the other an Xantrex/Trace inverter. 92%, 92% and 95% efficient.

In regard to power outages - the grid-tie inverters are required to be unable to work when they don't sense grid power. So, when the grid is down so is the solar power which seems a bit silly if someone buys it to be "prepared" and not dependent on the grid. The system at my house is custom designed with grid-tie and a backup battery bank. I can make it work when grid power is down.
 

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#21 · (Edited)
Ellis,
Excellent job!

Can you comment on the logistics of purchasing this system? For instance, did you or the installer need to file a plan with the local building department along with obtaining permits to complete the work? What about insurance for your own building? Did you increase your coverage to include replacement of this system, did it increase your premium? What about maintenance? As part of the package, did the seller and/or installer provide any warranty over the system for the first year or more? How do you think heavy snow might impact the output of the system?

I hope you don’t mind my questions.
Thanks,
Danco
 
#23 ·
I have a little input on the snow part of things-
How do you think heavy snow might impact the output of the system?

Good question, I would think that there would have to be some effect until there is melt off. Anyone with any knowledge out there with this?
The bad part of snow is that is going to block out the sun until the panels clear off, which is usually pretty quick. Being at an anlge , the snow should slide off to the low side.

I've seen snow build up at the base high enough to shade the lower part, but hopefully yours are mounted high enough so this won't be an issue.

The good thing about winter, and snowstorms, is the air generally has less particulate matter and the sun shines a little brighter on things, albeit at a lesser angle.

Thanks again for sharing Ellis. :thanku:
 
#24 ·
With regard to the rebates, did those go directly to the installer to reduce your purchase price, or did you have to pay in full and then wait for reimbursement. Would you mind sharing your total cost vs. the full system price?

I've looked into this here in FL, the way some of the rebates work is a reduction on my property tax over 5 years, but I would have to pay for the system out of pocket. I have a 40X60 shop and could produce well more than I use by covering 2/3 of the back half of my roof. I'm on a hill and the roof faces the right direction, so it makes sense from an energy standpoint. It's just the initial investment that's killing me right now.
 
#26 ·
With regard to the rebates, did those go directly to the installer to reduce your purchase price, or did you have to pay in full and then wait for reimbursement. Would you mind sharing your total cost vs. the full system price?
That was one of the nice things with this whole process. The local, state and federal governments, the installers and the power company all worked together, and with us, to get this done. They took care of the rebates, etc. For the magnitude of the job, it was a breeze.

System cost was a little over $300,000.00. Out of pocket was about a third of that. Plus there was a one time $84,000.00 federal tax credit, if we got it done in 2011. Which we did :fing32: All things considered, the payoff should be within 3 years.
 
#25 ·
Very cool. Thanks for sharing. I would love to do some solar panels on my house. I have a perfect roof section for it.
 
#29 ·
To be honest, I don't know if we're covered for hail specifically. Guess I should check, thanks!
 
#30 ·
Very, very cool! Thanks for all the info; even though it's still a little pricey on the initial outlay, a three-year horizon to recoup your investment is nothing almost.

What part of the country are you in? You mentioned that the state and local folks along with the installer worked very well together. It sounds like they have it pretty well figured out. I was just wondering where these enlightened folks are. :thThumbsU
 
#31 ·
Our company is located in Suffolk County, Long Island, NY. My impression is the wheel hub is at the federal level. They supply the lion's share of the incentive. The outlay is sizable. For us the timing was right. It's something that I wanted to do for years, but till now the comfort level wasn't there. I do think if you have a healthy company, and have resources to reinvest, the returns, over time, are great. Plus, as we own the building, it's not a bad equity builder :fing32:
 
#33 ·
Actually, it goes into the grid, and that amount is subtracted from what I use. So, instead of selling it to the local power company at a discount, I receive full value on my end for the power generated :fing32:
 
#34 ·
What happens when a storm knocks out power to your area, and the utility workers need to repair the broken transformers? Do you get notified to stop banking power to the grid to prevent killing the utility workers? How does the shutoff work?

BTW, thanks for sharing the info and pictures.
 
#38 ·
Appropriately, the discussion of the "rebates" and incentives should include the fact that the money comes from funds that "we" have borrowed.

So, the fact that some folks can install such systems only makes it more difficult for the rest of us to afford to install them. It's a downward spiral that I wish I knew how to handle. :crybaby:
 
#46 ·
You may be be right as far as Texas goes, but here in CT every person or company that gets an electric bill pays into a fund for rebates and other programs. For residential users you pay .03 per Kilowatt towards the Connecticut Energy Efficiency Fund. There is also a program they call REGGI, and it has to do with green house gasses, not sure exactly how that works but it's a type fine you pay if you exceed certain thresholds for polluting.
I know the residential program has 14 Million dollars to spend this year to weatherize homes, maximum you pay is $75.00. The Commercial side has even more available. I think it's one of the few programs that really work. The fear here is that the the State could grab this money for it's own budget problems, they did it once before around 2006.
 
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