Dealer put tubes in the tires!!! [Archive] - MyTractorForum.com - The Friendliest Tractor Forum and Best Place for Tractor Information

: Dealer put tubes in the tires!!!


unit40
06-23-2009, 06:37 AM
We were working on a ballfield yesterday with the 1070 when one of the front tires went flat. One of the guys noticed that the front tires had tubes in them. We had the dealer replace the front tires last fall because they were getting worn and had many plugs in them and we needed other work done on the tractor at the time so I didn't think it was a big deal. I called the dealer service dept and asked why they put tubes in tubeless tires. They told me that once you break the factory bead then the new tires will always leak. What a bunch of bull!!! We have NEVER, EVER put tubes in our tires on any of our machines. The worse case was with a Kubota F3060 mower when the calcium filled rims rotted out from the inside so we had to replace the rims and the tires. So yesterday, we used a portable air tank to get the tractor back up on the trailer, I brought the tractor back to the shop and put the rim on the tire machine, pulled out the tube, the rim was in great shape, applied some bead sealer and a metal screw on valve stem and viola, NO LEAKS!!! Once, if ever , I get caught up, I'm going to pull apart the other front tire. Turns out some gunk managed to get in the valve stem hole in the rim where the tube stem was sticking out. Tubes are bad, bad, bad!!!!! Dealer is starting to make me think that along with some other questionable jobs they have done, that maybe I should look elsewhere.

Kbeitz
06-23-2009, 07:24 AM
Hummmm.... I put tubes in all my tires and I like them...

unit40
06-23-2009, 07:44 AM
Why put tubes in tubeless tires? Do you ever get a puncture? You cant plug it you have to break down the tire. Ever get water in through the opening in the rim where the valve stem comes out? You'll get rot inside the rim. Plus crap can get in there and wear away and abrade the tube.

D-Dogg
06-23-2009, 08:33 AM
There is little chance any junk gets past the stem of a properly inflated tube. Also the tube will receive and contain the water from the air used to fill the tube, rather than having it rust the rim.

Tubes prevent the bead from accidentally unseating on a low pressure tire, and prevent blowouts that can occur during a loaded turn.

I would not use my FEL with tubeless tires. Of course, I am a safety Nazi.

You are honestly the first person I've met to decry tube use. Interesting point of view, but I think you are going to hear much strong disagreement with your position.

jeepersmitty
06-23-2009, 08:36 AM
When I get a flat it gets a tube and slime in the tube. Once a tire is done that way I seldom ever have to bother with a flat untill the tire is wore out.

x595
06-23-2009, 10:38 AM
Hi all ,

I don't use tubes , just never needed them and SLIME only guarantee's it's
performance for 2 years , then they recommend removing the product and
replace with new , (not happening) ... What I use is a product from
www.gemplers.com called ULTRASEAL , very good product , our Military
uses it and no expiration date !!!

Later,x595

unit40
06-23-2009, 03:44 PM
I would either plug or patch the tire. None of our loaders have tubes. Non of our back-hoes have tubes. If a low pressure tire blows out then it was overloaded. Keep the tubes for fun on the lake.

music-in-a-bottle
06-23-2009, 04:14 PM
Wouldn't have it any other way. put my name on the board for tubes!

slkpk
06-23-2009, 06:43 PM
I would either plug or patch the tire. None of our loaders have tubes. Non of our back-hoes have tubes. If a low pressure tire blows out then it was overloaded. Keep the tubes for fun on the lake.

:ditto: :ditto: :ditto: slkpk

Grateful11
06-23-2009, 07:19 PM
If you live on a farm long enough you're going use a tube eventually. Just put a new tire on the IH 82 pull-type Combine she gotta tube to boot. Slow
leaks is what gets most of ours, not punctures or cuts. A slow leak will nag
you to death.

unit40
06-23-2009, 09:44 PM
Won't just about any tire slowly leak all of it's air over time? I think if you have a nagging leak, then you find the leak and you fix it. If your valve stem leaks you're going to break down the tire and put a tube in it? If you're leaking air through the bead you're gonna break down the tire and put a tube in it, instead of replacing the valve stem or cleaning and sealing the bead? If putting a tube in you're tire is the way you want to fix a problem, OK with you. But a professional Deere service department should know how to properly install a tractor tire on a tractor rim the way it is supposed to be installed and I don't see any tube in a parts breakdown for any Deere tractors, do you? My 2 cts.

~aRBy~
06-24-2009, 12:41 AM
But a professional Deere service department should know how to properly install a tractor tire on a tractor rim the way it is supposed to be installed and I don't see any tube in a parts breakdown for any Deere tractors, do you? My 2 cts.

That would be why you got a tube.

Also, why would you put calcium in to a tubeless tire?

Upper5Percent
06-24-2009, 01:54 AM
Hokey Smoke...we've discovered another issue rivaling politics and religion...:D

When it comes to loading tires...Rim Guard is the way to go...non-polluting/ non-rim-rotting beet mixture...;)

http://www.rimguard.biz/

Rim Guard™ was developed and patented in 1998 as a liquid tire ballast that overcame all of the shortcomings of other liquid tire ballasts.
• Rim Guard™ is nearly 30% heavier than water.
• Rim Guard™ is non-corrosive.
• Rim Guard™ is non-toxic and biodegradable.
• Rim Guard™ is freeze-resistant down to -35°F.
• Rim Guard™ is cost effective because inner tubes are not needed and tires are easier to repair.

unit40
06-24-2009, 06:23 AM
We didn't put the calcium in the F3060's tires, the Kubota dealer did when they sold us the mower. The machine had filled tires and wheel weights to provide added traction to the drive tires and provide added stability for the machine because of the hopper that rests on a frame over the rear hood raised the center of gravity. Rim Guard, beet-juice, whatever works for you. I think the standard procedure when loading a tire with CaCl is to fill it so much that none of the inside rim is exposed to air. Try checking tire pressure with a calcium filled tire...it will destroy the gauge.

Simon Smith
06-24-2009, 07:47 AM
The reason we put tubes in whenever we take a tyre off is because almost every LT or GT and a lot of compacts actually need them.

Most manufacturers use tubeless tyres, but they are not tubeless rims. New machines generally arrive with almost flat tyres so we just inflate them to the correct pressure, but if the bead has broken we fit tubes. I always have tubes in my machines and have had no problems with punctures, but have the satisfaction that a puncture in a tube can be repaired in the field with basic tools.

If someone has a lot of thorns we fit tubes and thornguards. Or for a larger tractor doing hedgecutting work etc we would recommend nailguards.

Calcium will always rot the rims if used without tubes, it is not only impossible to fill the tyre completely so there is no air gap but it is also against all the recommendations I have seen. A tractor needs something compressible in the tyres (air) as that is its suspension.

63Panzer
06-24-2009, 10:09 AM
I think you are missing the point to the installation of the tube. They actually fixed it correctly for themselves. They could sit there and dick around with sealing beads and replacing valve stems but in the end its messy, it could still leak or worse you could get out in the field and have a slow leak failure..... thus causing you aggravation and JD free shop time to rectify the problem. So instead they remove the tire, pull the stem and remount with a tube (in about the same amount of time it will take you to read this response). With a tube installation they are 99% sure you will not call bitching it still leaks.

Tractor-Holic
06-24-2009, 10:30 AM
Tubes are the only way to squeeze a few more miles and years out of garden tractor tires that have weather cracks that let air seep out too--slime wont help there,nor will it seal bead leaks..and I have only "plugged" one or two lawn tractor turf tires sucessfully with auto style plugs or rope,they RIP too easily ,and often the plugs fail to bond with the vinyl like "rubber" they are made from..so you end up taking them off anyway to install a patch on the inside,so you might as well have had a tube anyway!..

I'd take a tube anyday ,when it comes to lawn tractor tires myself..and I'd never use calcium without a tube either--or EVER again period,after having to shell out nearly 300 bucks for new rear rims on my 641 Ford I had..

olcowhand
06-24-2009, 10:43 AM
If you live on a farm long enough you're going use a tube eventually. Slow
leaks is what gets most of ours, not punctures or cuts. A slow leak will nag
you to death.

:ditto: :ditto: :ditto: A person can't always afford new rims and our older farm equipment end up with rims that simply won't support tubeless use. Plus on my garden tractors, the tires may have years of use left, but dry-crack causes slow leaks. Tubes end the aggravation. I've never had a garden tractor with tubes ever go down or get punctured.

olcowhand
06-24-2009, 10:45 AM
I called the dealer service dept and asked why they put tubes in tubeless tires. They told me that once you break the factory bead then the new tires will always leak. What a bunch of bull!!! We have NEVER, EVER put tubes in our tires on any of our machines. The worse case was with a Kubota F3060 mower when the calcium filled rims rotted out from the inside so we had to replace the rims and the tires.

Yes, the dealer is full of crap. If that was the case, then on our cars & trucks, we'd have to buy new wheels every tire replacement.
What I want to know is why the Kubota dealer put calcium in tubeless tires??????? I'd not let that dealer service my stuff, but then I do all my own service & rebuilding anyway.

Grateful11
06-24-2009, 11:26 AM
Hokey Smoke...we've discovered another issue rivaling politics and religion...:D

Ain't the the truth! I didn't realize people were so passionate about air in their
tires. IE: "If putting a tube in you're tire is the way you want to fix a
problem, OK with you." I think I know how to check if a valve stem is
leaking, so no I'm not going to put dang tube in for a leaking valve stem.
We just put a new tire on a nearly 40 year old pull type Combine and if one
does that and doesn't put a tube in it while going through the same process
then, well I can't say what I want to say. I spent $83 on a new tire and $15 on
a tube, that's $15 for one less possible future headache while we're trying to
get something done that's more important than driving around on a well
manicured lawn. :thSick:

Simon Smith
06-24-2009, 12:17 PM
Yes, the dealer is full of crap. If that was the case, then on our cars & trucks, we'd have to buy new wheels every tire replacement.




Our cars and trucks have tubeless rims, I don't know about the rims on Deere GT's but as I said most use tube rims with tubeless tyres. This makes for a quick install in the factory and saves a lot of money. Inflated properly it is not a problem, but if you run low pressures they will roll off the rims very easily. On the Dual drive wheelhorse we run 30psi on the front wheels, but only 5 psi on the rear. Although of course being a wheelhorse it has tubeless rims as standard.

Carry on repairing them whichever way makes you happy:thThumbsU

unit40
06-24-2009, 01:17 PM
I think you are missing the point to the installation of the tube. They actually fixed it correctly for themselves. They could sit there and dick around with sealing beads and replacing valve stems but in the end its messy, it could still leak or worse you could get out in the field and have a slow leak failure..... thus causing you aggravation and JD free shop time to rectify the problem. So instead they remove the tire, pull the stem and remount with a tube (in about the same amount of time it will take you to read this response). With a tube installation they are 99% sure you will not call bitching it still leaks.

In this case, it was the tube that failed, not the new tire. If there is any foreign debris inside the tire, it will abrade the tube resulting in failure. Out of all the tires I have personally replaced on my machines, no tubes and no leaks. Dealer puts in a tube where no tube was necessary, then shame on the dealer. Shame on me for having someone else do the job that if I wanted it done right I should have done it myself. I'm just going to beat myself up on this one. If you want to kick me while I'm down.......Just kidding.

TUDOR
06-24-2009, 11:02 PM
I once put tubes in the rear wheels of my MF12H and had them loaded. The tubes 'walked' around inside of the tire until the valve stem tore off! Three tubes, three loads of calcium and six weeks later I was back on loaded tubeless tires. Five years later I sold the tractor with the same load of calcium still in them.
Only disadvantage has already been stated. Rim life expectancy is 12-14 years. My MF1655 now needs its 14 year old rims replaced and I only had to reload one tire, once in that time. Tubes would be great if they could be trusted to not go 'walking'.

Bob

olcowhand
06-24-2009, 11:51 PM
I once put tubes in the rear wheels of my MF12H and had them loaded. The tubes 'walked' around inside of the tire until the valve stem tore off! Three tubes, three loads of calcium and six weeks later I was back on loaded tubeless tires. Five years later I sold the tractor with the same load of calcium still in them.
Only disadvantage has already been stated. Rim life expectancy is 12-14 years. My MF1655 now needs its 14 year old rims replaced and I only had to reload one tire, once in that time. Tubes would be great if they could be trusted to not go 'walking'.

Bob

That is odd, being loaded tubes have been used in large tractors for many years. Never had a tube "walk" in my 50 years. Not saying it isn't so, because it did happen to you, but I wonder what caused it. I do know too little air pressure will cause the tube to move.

Tractor-Holic
06-25-2009, 12:57 AM
The tires most likely slipped on the rims,it's not the tubes that "walked",due to being run at too low a pressure..tractor pullers use self tapping screws driven through the rim bead and into the tire bead to prevent this from happening,so do drag racers..

That said,I have two "perfect" 12" tubes that never have been punctured or patched,but also had the valve stems chopped off when the tires were driven flat,after a leaky valve stem core let them deflate (calcuim ate them up!)..not sure if I'm willing to try "gluing" new valve stems onto them or not--IF I can still find any that is!..

TUDOR
06-25-2009, 04:14 AM
That is odd, I wonder what caused it. I do know too little air pressure will cause the tube to move.

I wondered too. Actually I said many bad words while I wondered. Max pressure in those tires was 12 psi and I kept them pretty close to that. Learned early on that calcium does bad things to tire pressure guages and started measuring from the ground to the top of the rim to check the pressure. Just have to make sure any implements are resting on the ground and if your base line measurement included tire chains or not. Anyway, that was about 29 or 30 years ago.

Incidently, I've been reading some of your comments and threads. Knowledgeable, inciteful, well engineered and constructed projects, a solid interest in Massey Ferguson garden tractors, and one of the many reasons I joined this forum. Now, lets see you put your hat on.

Bob

TUDOR
06-25-2009, 04:33 AM
[QUOTE=Tractor-Holic;727308]The tires most likely slipped on the rims,it's not the tubes that "walked",due to being run at too low a pressure..tractor pullers use self tapping screws driven through the rim bead and into the tire bead to prevent this from happening,so do drag racers..

QUOTE]

I actually had that happen because of low pressure, which was why I put tubes in in the first place. After I took the tubes out and started paying closer attention they didn't slip. Same tires and rims. And you wouldn't believe what I did with and to that poor little tractor.

I've seen your comments, too. You and every other tractor jockey here set pretty high standards for us rookies to meet in the help each other department. But I'm trying......very trying.

Bob

unit40
06-25-2009, 06:46 AM
WOW, I didn't realize just how many experiences and thoughts you guys have regarding the use of tubes !!! I would guess after reading all your posts that there seem to be more of you on the side advocating the use of tubes. Also interesting how a few of you have also had bad experiences with the dreaded calcium. But.......as I will stick to my guns here, several years ago I had to replace all the tires on an Excel Hustler 4600 Range wing mower. so we're talking 14 tires of many sizes just on that machine alone. And you probably guessed it, no tubes and no leaks, the tires are doing just fine. We won't run any equipment if the tires start getting dry rotted and cracked. Just not safe, so we replace them. The hustler had over 12 years on the original tires.

Grateful11
06-25-2009, 09:22 AM
>"We won't run any equipment if the tires start getting dry rotted and cracked. Just not safe, so we replace them."

I commend you on that but here we have equipment that's over 50 years old
just can't afford to replace tires that are dry rotted. On something running
highway speeds by all means replace them but not hay elevator, grain
cart, silage wagons and stuff.

Larwyn
06-25-2009, 09:57 AM
To my way, the best way to fix a punctured tire is with a patch, regardless of whether it has a tube or not. Tire plugs are only a temporary measure (in my mind), and complicate the eventual preparation the tire will require for the installation of a tube, unless you replace the tire instead. In most cases a tube will eliminate nuisance slow leaks, and requires you to make a more permanent repair when it does leak. The only real advantage I see for running tubeless is time "saved" by the ability to plug, inflate, and go. But in reality you end up spending more time adding air over time than you would have repairing a tube after a puncture.

Tractor-Holic
06-25-2009, 10:31 AM
Mostly I only use tubes because I dont have a fat enough wallet to buy new tires when the only defects they have are weather cracks that are pous enough to let the air seep out slowly..
..lawn tractor tires cost as much as CAR tires often,sometimes more,and are made of cheaper, inferior rubber,seems worse every year,in my opinion..saw some for sale that looked like tubes with tread smushed flat as flounders at the farm store,I bet a thorn punctures them easily..

I only use tubes mostly on slow speed equipment and things like wheelbarrows,hand trucks,lawn tractors,etc..things that you NEED to have air in the tires and not be flat,and waste precious time adding air or patching them when you should be USING them!..I have even resorted to cutting up a "junk" tube and use it as a boot or inner liner on really cracked tires,so the tube wont get pinched in them and punctured prematurely,on things with odball sized tires I could not get replacements for !..(like a sickle bar mower that had 7" rims!)..


I do not try and get every last mile out of a truck or car tire though,if they are weather cracked I get rid of them or use them on "yard" trailers that wont ever be towed on the street,I have had too many blowouts and near death experiences on busy highways to tempt fate!..I have used 12" auto tires on my garden tractors back when Ford Festiva's and GEO's were common in junkyards,those steel belted radials resist punctures much better than a typical "thin" 2 ply turf tread tire will ,with no steel cords!..12" car tires are getting harder to find now though..thats why I like lawn tractors with the lugged rims,so car rims & tires can be used!..