motor oil for firetrucks

[junk_jivin38]

im a member of our volunteer fire dept...as with everything else,our budget suffered some cuts this year and we are looking for ways to cut costs...one thing we talked about is doing our own maintenance...oil change,lube,etc....
my question is this: what oil do i use? i've worked with a lot of heavy equipment as well as diesel pickups and have always used 15w40 because that is what was supplied...now its up to me to supply the oil and i want to make sure its the right oil
also,i dont know if they used regular or synthetic oil..i know synthetic costs more,but realistically,how much longer can you go between changes and is there a way to tell if the oil in the trucks is reg or syn?
and last,what type of grease for chassis parts?


thanks,jon

[donsoil]

im a member of our volunteer fire dept...as with everything else,our budget suffered some cuts this year and we are looking for ways to cut costs...one thing we talked about is doing our own maintenance...oil change,lube,etc....
my question is this: what oil do i use? i've worked with a lot of heavy equipment as well as diesel pickups and have always used 15w40 because that is what was supplied...now its up to me to supply the oil and i want to make sure its the right oil
also,i dont know if they used regular or synthetic oil..i know synthetic costs more,but realistically,how much longer can you go between changes and is there a way to tell if the oil in the trucks is reg or syn?
and last,what type of grease for chassis parts?


thanks,jon

Greetings Jon !
A question for you, are any of the diesel firetrucks new emissions ( 2007 or newer) ?
If so they must use a CJ-4 new emmisions diesel oil, Amsoil has that in a 5W40.
Any diesel that is pre 2007 can use a CJ-4 oil, however from a wear and oil longevity standpoint I would use the previous CI-4+ diesel oil, reason being the new CJ-4 diesel oils have reduced the Zinc and Phosphorus anti wear additives to protect the catalytic converter used in the exhausts of 2007 and newer engines. The E.P.A. also capped the TBN ( Total Base Number) at 8, TBN is the additive responsible for neutralizing acids as they form in the oil.
TBN is made up of magnesium, calcium, and sulfated ash, the key to how they neutralize acids Hinges on the chemistry of P.H. (Parts of Hydrogen)
The P.H. scale starts with acid at 0 and a base or caustic at 14, water is neutral at about 7.0, it is not aggresive and will not eat your tissue.
If you were to take a cup of acid and a cup of base and pour them together they would neutralize each other out at a P.H. of about 7, this is basically the same way TBN (which is base in nature) neutralizes acid in the oil, it mixes with it and brings it to a neutral state so that it cannot do damage to the metals in the engine. This acid neutralization slowly depletes the TBN additive package in the oil .
New CJ-4 oil is capped by the government at a TBN of 8.
Amsoil HDD 5W30, and 15W40 CI-4+ oil has a TBN of 12
If you use oil analysis that includes a test for TBN they will flag it at 2 and recommend changing it, otherwise if you let the TBN go to 0 you no longer have the ability to neutralize acid any longer and corrosion may occur.
The choice is yours as far as Amsoil HDD 5W30 or AME 15W40 Either will work super in your older diesel engines, if fuel economy is an issue the 5W30 will gain 3 to 5 % better fuel economy versus the 15W40, and compromizes nothing in wear.
I have a local volunteer fire department in West Union Iowa using Amsoil HDD 5W30 in their fire engines, they do not see alot of run hours per year and were changing oil yearly with petro oil, With Amsoil, and Donalson Endurance synthetic media full flow oil filters they sample the oil yearly, change oil filters every 600 hours and let the oil analysis recommend when to change oil. As long as the TBN, and oil additives and wear are tested periodically the oil may be used for years.
Oil analysis is a spectacular management tool that all to often gets overlooked because of lack of understanding.
If you would like to learn more about Oil analysis I have a booklet I could send you.
The new diesel oil may be run much longer through oil analysis also, the key is to trust in oil analysis, it is sort of like a blood test on a human and allows you a look inside the engine, and the condition of the oil and additives.
The grease I would recommend is Amsoil Heavy Duty moly fortified grease, I have many of the local farmers using it, they have reduced the frequency of greasing by nearly half versus petroleum based grease, and the old Amsoil grease being pumped through looks nearly the same as what is being pumped in.
Here are a couple of links to the grease and diesel oils :

http://www.amsoil.com/a/synthetic-diesel-motor-oil-engine-oil?zo=531421

http://www.amsoil.com/a/synthetic-grease?zo531421

If you are interested in purchasing Amsoil, give me a call, Amsoil has a commercial account that will allow the fire station to save about 30 % off the retail price.
Please let me know how I may be of further service.
Thank you !
Have a great day!
Don

[junk_jivin38]

hi don,
Currently,both our trucks are older,i think '88 & '91...However,we plan to upgrade to a brand-new pumper in the next couple years.Looks like the cj-4 would be the way to go.
Should we go with 5w40 or 15w40? I realize the 5w40 has better cold-flow capabilities than 15w40,is that the only difference?(sorry,reading back i see the 5w40 improves mileage) While we do get some pretty cold weather in these parts(had-32 F last week),our trucks are in a heated bay,so cold-starting should not be an issue...
In another post you mentioned seals...What are the odds I will "create" seal leaks using a full synthetic? I don't know what oil is currently in these trucks,as they have been serviced by an outside source,which brings me to ask about oil analysis...
You mentioned a booklet on oil analysis...Yes, I definitely want that booklet...meanwhile,is this analysis something we can do in-house?or take a sample and ship to some lab? Also,will an oil analysis tell me what type of oil is currently in the engine? Or some other way to tell if its synthetic or petro?
We are a small Dept. in a small town,we don't log a lot of miles,so i really think synthetic oil and analysis may add up to significant savings over the yearly out-sourcing for service. I thank you for your time and look forward to getting these changes underway.
thanks,jon

here is the address to send the oil analysis booklet:

Wevertown Vol. Fire Co. Inc.
P.O. Box 76
Wevertown,N.Y. 12886
Attn: Jon Ladd

[donsoil]

Good morning Jon !
The new fire engine will require the CJ-4 oil which Amsoil has in a 5W40.
On the older engines I recommend Either the HDD 5W30 or the AME 15W40 in a CI-4+.
The 5W30 will improve fuel economy versus the 15w40, with no compromise in wear. The 5W30 does cost about $2 per quart more, however if you are doing extended drains the $2 per qt. is insignificant.
You choose which one is best for your application, either will work beautifully in your engines.
Synthetic oil will not cause a good seal to leak. If you have an old or worn seal the synthetic will clean the previously formed deposits, and if there are cracks or imperfections in the seal that have been plugged by the deposits the synthetic will reveal the true condition of the seal, and as such the synthetic will get a reputation for making seals leak. As I have stated in previous posts, its ironic how many seals leak and require replacement when petroleum oil is used, but I have yet to hear that petroleum based oil causes seal leaks, I guess with petro oil the darn seal just wore out.
Oil analysis something you could easily do in house, the booklet I am sending you explains in detail how to take the sample, instructions on filling out info about the analysis and how to send it to the lab, as well as how to understand what the numbers and information in the report mean.
I have had people claim that Amsoil performs oil analysis through its own lab, and thus the reports are bias, this is not true. Amsoil does sell oil analysis kits, however these kits are for oil analysis performed by Polaris Labs, an independent test Lab based in Indiana, this is one of the many independent oil analysis labs throughout the country.
Another choice for oil analysis is a local caterpillar dealer or implement dealer, as they also offer oil analysis to their customers.
If using local oil analysis be sure to check what tests they perform, most cat or implement dealers sell a basic kit to test for wear metals and oil viscosity, these kits cost any where from 10 to 20 dollars and require postage to be added when mailed which adds about $3 to the price, these basic kits also do not contain TBN ( total base number) test which adds $3 to $5 to the cost.
The kits Amsoil sells are postage paid and include all the tests needed for extended oil drain interval testing for about $23.
As far as whether you have synthetic or petro in the engine now, I would be surprised if it were synthetic, most do it for me oil change shops will not handle synthetic oil unless the waranty requires it, extended oil drains do not promote large bank accounts for their business, so they do not see any advantage to synthetics or extended drains and will try to convince you not to use it, however decades of oil testing and billions of miles of proven results separates fact from fallacy.
There is a test to determine origin of the oil and will determine if the oil is chemically engineered synthetic or if it is a synthetic or petro based oil derived from crude. The test is rather expensive, anywhere from $ 100 to $150 but it will tell you what the basestock was derived from.
It is basically a chemical fingerprint of the oil and shows on a graph the different concentrations of dissimilar molecules that make up the base stock.
Amsoil synthetic coupled with oil analysis will greatly reduce you maintenance costs while extending equipment life and giving you an excellent handle on what is going on inside that piece of equipment that you currently do not have.
I will send out info to you today.
Please let me know if you wish to set up a commercial account for your fire department.
Thank you !
Have a great day !
Don