Nice looking Chinese tractor

[Durwood]

I believe this is a Foton or Futian? Anyway, it doesn't look like your typical Chinese tractor to me.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y100/OleDurwood/84_1_b.jpg

[Rusty Jones]

I believe this is a Foton or Futian? Anyway, it doesn't look like your typical Chinese tractor to me.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y100/OleDurwood/84_1_b.jpg Well, one look at that grinnin' grille makes me think its Chinese, and they did that so we'd feel good, while they are ruinin' our manufacturers, witrh their cheap imports.

[draddogs]

Rusty may I ask how you really feel :trink23:

I really understand that line of thought but I also see where we have put ourselves at a perilous disadvantage...I don't really know what is the best way to fix the problem other than a little protectionism as in import taxation.... then the US manufacturers need to step up and give good products at a fair price.. I am also tired of the US manufacturers crying that we cant compete..... They used to say that about us.....

[draddogs]

[QUOTE=Durwood]I believe this is a Foton or Futian? Anyway, it doesn't look like your typical Chinese tractor to me.

Durwood all of these little tractors a remind me of todays cars... they all look the same.....If you would have put it up there and not mention that it was chinese I would have thought at first glance of NH... so I guess in a way I agree that ours doesn't look chinese... or theirs dont look chinese either...

[Durwood]

Well, one look at that grinnin' grille makes me think its Chinese, and they did that so we'd feel good, while they are ruinin' our manufacturers, witrh their cheap imports.

I certainly feel you are entitled to your opinion on this Rusty. But, i do have one question and that is can you tell me which tractors are actually made in the states now? You will have to look hard to find any under 50hp. I agree it is a shame, but those $30.00 an hour jobs over here are disappearing fast. It's not just about China, but it seems like every country can build products as good as us at a much cheaper price. It seems to be the snowball effect doesn't it? I'm actually agreeing with you on this but it is us the consumer that keeps going to Wal-mart because we get the most for our money that is causing this. If we didn't shop at these cheap places than this might not happen. But, take a young family of say 5 and they have to stretch their dollars to make ends meet. So it is a catch 22 situation.

Durwood

[Carl]

Your picture belies your wisdom! With much grumbling and lamenting I have to agree with you. I try not to buy other than 'Made in America', but there are so many products that just aren't made in this country. Second string for me is any place but China. The only reason that I do this is because I can afford it.

The rub is that there are many people that have to pinch each penny. They have no other choice. I can lament the circumstances that cause that situation, but I really can't blame anyone that is in that situation.

[Durwood]

Carl , I have a classmate who is pro union and works for Fram filters here in Greenville ohio. As much as he despises Wal-Mart he would never picket against them because Wal-Mart is his companies biggest customer. Talk about being in a catch 22 situation. :banghead3 And now the Chinese are gonna start selling cars over here. I've heard they think they can cut our prices by about 30%.
http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000340040895/
http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000717040927
It is only gonna get worse.

Durwood

[MowHoward2210]

I certainly feel you are entitled to your opinion on this Rusty. But, i do have one question and that is can you tell me which tractors are actually made in the states now? You will have to look hard to find any under 50hp. I agree it is a shame, but those $30.00 an hour jobs over here are disappearing fast. It's not just about China, but it seems like every country can build products as good as us at a much cheaper price. It seems to be the snowball effect doesn't it? I'm actually agreeing with you on this but it is us the consumer that keeps going to Wal-mart because we get the most for our money that is causing this. If we didn't shop at these cheap places than this might not happen. But, take a young family of say 5 and they have to stretch their dollars to make ends meet. So it is a catch 22 situation.

Durwood


EXACTLY, Durwood!

[jerry_nj]

This seems to be the "place". I've been look for the last couple of years for someone who has experience with the Nothern Tool Nortrek (not sure of the spelling). They offer a 20 HP 3Cyl Diesel, 4WD, Water Cooled, Power Steering, 2 Speed live PTO, etc. for about $6K. A little more than some on this forum, but a lot less than a USA "name". I think the NorTrek is made in China. Norther Tool has been selling them for years, they must be moving some of them, but none that seem to be reported on here, or on the GF Tractor forum where I've also raised this point/question.

[JimNColorado]

Durwood,
One view that I found interesting from my British daughter-in-law is that China is doing to us, what we did to Europe in the late 1800's-early 1900's. America took jobs with less expensive labor during the industrial revolution. Her point was that Europe survived, and their economies evolved. My opinion is that the Asian developing countries are taking work faster than we can cope. Troubling times....

[Dachshund]

I certainly feel you are entitled to your opinion on this Rusty. But, i do have one question and that is can you tell me which tractors are actually made in the states now? You will have to look hard to find any under 50hp. I agree it is a shame, but those $30.00 an hour jobs over here are disappearing fast. It's not just about China, but it seems like every country can build products as good as us at a much cheaper price. It seems to be the snowball effect doesn't it? I'm actually agreeing with you on this but it is us the consumer that keeps going to Wal-mart because we get the most for our money that is causing this. If we didn't shop at these cheap places than this might not happen. But, take a young family of say 5 and they have to stretch their dollars to make ends meet. So it is a catch 22 situation.Durwood

I saw an interesting show on PBS Frontline last Summer. It was called "Is Wal-Mart good for America?" It was VERY interesting. Do you know where the largest Wal-Mart on Earth is? CHINA. But, like Dor said, you can't afford NOT to shop there, even though they don't always have the lowest prices on everything.

[Keweenaw4310]

Our local Wal-Mart created hundreds of jobs in our community. Now all of the local business owners and their families that had to close shop because of lack of customers can now find part time - low pay - no benefit work to buy shampoo at Wal-mart for 97 cents.

[Mickey]

Our local Wal-Mart created hundreds of jobs in our community. Now all of the local business owners and their families that had to close shop because of lack of customers can now find part time - low pay - no benefit work to buy shampoo at Wal-mart for 97 cents.
Humm, funny, I can only think of several businesses in town that close up shop after Wal Mart opened and one was Kmart. Don't know if they were related but our Kmart wasn't managed too well. In recent yrs we also lost Birdseye and Smuckers but their not a retail business. After Wal Mart came to town the largest factory mall in the state opened locally and the old downtown section still is not boarded up.

Somethings not right here but I don't think is was Wal Mart coming to town. With that said, Walmart is the first store I come to when going into town. Much of the time I leave empty handed and kicking myself in the butt for even stopping but I don't have a problem with them stting up shop here.

[Jim_WV]

Hmmmm, looks like they took New Hollands color :coffee:

[johndeere]

Thats a Bic tractor.When it breaks buy a new one.So wheres the bargain?Because wheres the parts supplier for a Funton or Fonton Yuckasoki or what ever it is?Probably runs on rotten suchi.

[Keweenaw4310]

Humm, funny, I can only think of several businesses in town that close up shop after Wal Mart opened and one was Kmart.

We lost Kmart shortly after as well. Also lost over 1/2 of the individual businesses in the mall which is less than 1/2 mile up the road from Wal-Mart. Now that our Wal-Mart expanded to super wal-mart and sells groceries, there is talk of at least 2 local large grocery stores having trouble and closing soon. Our local electronics stores and hardware store owners are feeling the hurt as are the local gas station owners.

[Keweenaw4310]

I believe this is a Foton or Futian? Anyway, it doesn't look like your typical Chinese tractor to me.
Back on the subject of the tractor and not Wal-Mart.

The hood has a 50's space age kitchen appliance look to me.

[Greg]

Probably runs on rotten suchi.

How'd you guess, JD?

Any specs available?

[dirtybernie]

Back on the subject of the tractor and not Wal-Mart.

The hood has a 50's space age kitchen appliance look to me.
my thoughts exactly. they definatley look classic

[Tvern13]

Jerry NJ,

Unless I'm mistaken the Nortracs from Northern Tool are Jinma Chinese tractors.

[bblalocksr]

We all like to complain about foreign products, but those of us that remember the 50's remember cars that fell apart after 50,000 miles. Then came the Japanese imports that cost less and lasted 100k and more. Now American cars last 100k and more and compete for the Japanese market. Maybe the Amn. manufactures need to wake up. It's now a global market.

[Frog]

I believe this is a Foton or Futian? Anyway, it doesn't look like your typical Chinese tractor to me.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y100/OleDurwood/84_1_b.jpg
:trink40: I have read this thread and living in another country I have found many of the thoughts to be quiet interesting. Living in Australia which is a small country population wise, I must admit to being the other side of fifty I have seen our Nation also bombarded with so many imports over the years at a great cost to our local industries and jobs as well as national wealth. The huge demise of our local industries has certainly been assisted by just some of the following Nations U.S.A., Japan, Europe and now certainly but I am sure not the last China. I too have purchased Chinese products recently and I must say in many cases I have been suprised by the quality and their reliability. Makes you ponder doesn't it. Frog :banghead3

[mark777]

I wonder what parts support is like for these (Chinese) tractors? It was not too long ago that, that was one of the biggest issues for new owners...acquiring parts for/and experiencing mechanical failures.An early and major problem were poor castings and inferior metals causing stress fractures and drive train failures (often broken axles etc.). This WAS in the past decade or so....and I'm pretty sure their tractors have improved somewhat, but how much?

Isn't it feasible that many local (North American) manufacturing companies could pool their resources and manufacture 3 separate models (small, medium and large) of tractors? Keep the material, costs and labor at a minimum and of-set the worker labor expenses with employee owned stock?

Components could be made and shipped from anywhere in the states to a central location for assembly. Engines, transmissions and heavy driveline parts are already available, and a good negotiator could purchase train loads and parts for inventory from Ford, Chrysler and GM....for pennies on the retail dollar. These engines already meet or exceed the DOT and EPA requirements...I know it would take 2-3 hundred million $ to form the coop, overcome the logistics nightmare and acquire small industry manufacturing contracts, but the results could be realized within the first two years. And the results would be tractors made in America, economy based for the average small land owner, stiff competition of foreign imports and a choice for all consumers and perspective buyers.

There must be thousands of Mom & Pop companies begging for an opportunity to make 1000 of, 3 sizes of xyz parts on a month to month contract. Pipe Dream?? Yeah, probably but man - beyond the manufacture of cheap, affordable tractors, it would stimulate many local economies and RE-set industry standards right here in the U.S.

Durwood, I'm impressed with the look and design of that tractor in your post....sorry for the long and off topic reply.

Mark

[Durwood]

Mark, i'm kind of surprised they aren't building them in Mexico since labor is so cheap there. Seems like a happy medium to me for the manufacturor...where they could still control it better and still have the cheap labor too. i do believe the quality of the tractors has improved quite a bit and as i understand it now, parts are not a problem. It seems the issues are mostly the set-up of the tractor when put together here.

Dur

[jerry_nj]

Good question on why not Mexico for mfg'ing. That could also help with the illegal immigration "problem", Mexicans would find more (low wage) employment in Mexico. As they come to the US for low wage jobs wouldn't they be willing to work at home for he same low wages (low relative to US wages, high relative to Mexican wages).

Yes I know the argument we need the low cost Mexican Labor in the US, but it must be via legal working arrangements.

So, back to the question, do you suppose it is easier to get/train skilled factory workers in China than in Mexico? I'm not saying it is, but there must be a reason China is making all the products. Or is it the government in China is more business-savvy?

I do like the idea of more efficiency in US manufacturing, that's even better than Mexican factories. Isn't that what's happening with Air Planes, e.g., only Boeing is left in the US large passenger plane market. Then it has problem with competition, not with low cost labor markets, Europe, but from markets/manufacturers that get a lot of help/subsidy from government.

[Dan Lovell]

Even with low wages in Mexico, companies are moving to China where wages are even less. There are factory's in Mexico right now that are sitting empty because of it.

Dan

[mark777]

I also believe that although you may be the principal owner (as in 51%) you still have to have a national (Mexican) partner in Mexico. regardless of sole ownership or corporate owned - you can't own any business or business associated property without a national partner. This is how it was just a few years ago....unless something has changed it would mean a very wealthy Mexican individual who is willing to risk a very large investment without any subsidies from his government.

Local assets and labor are available....This is how The Home Depot was started. Starting out small, then buying out local lumber and hardware stores, many mergers later and with mostly American purchases....the average worker who vested into the stock plan, saw their stock split 3 times in the first decade of operations. Mine split once before I left the company. BTW, Lowes did pretty much the same thing. Too bad both these companies generate so much purchasing power AND now buy from China.

It is unfortunate that a small group with the financial assets (Powerball winners) dont resurrect a industry tradition and make these competative tractors...or widgets for that matter.

Mark

[Mickey]

Looks like the discussion has turned a little and that's OK.

I have some business experience with mfg in foreign countries and been to China and Taiwan on several occasions. As I've mentioned here before, in China you will find Co's and qlty that varies from Junk to World Class. With a lot of products there are common designs being used by many Co's and it is very possible from a eyeball look you can't tell the good stuff from the junk.

China does have a rep for substandard castings. Metallurgy is so-so and foundry tech can be the same. Their answer is to throw more metal into the casting to overcome their weaknesses. As consumers we can't evaluate qlty of the metal or detect internal flaws.

As for education and skilled reliable workforce in China Vs Mexico. Think I've give the nod to china. In the large cities in China, you'll find education is taken pretty serious. They are graduating engineers at a rate much higher than we are. Not unusual to find people with tech degrees sweeping the floor in a Co just waiting for a chance to grab a decent job from a foreign Co. Even in the lessor Co's, employees may not be well educated but show them how to do their job and they repeat it many times a day for as long as you want. On the other hand, Mexico has a rep for a not very stable labor force. many worker don't last beyond their first paycheck. Their rep is well know enough I've seen ads from some Co's in Mexico advertising their turnover rate to show a stable workforce.

In addition to cheap labor there is environmental reg and safety issues to give consideration to. Due to all these items don't think you'd ever find a start-up operation here trying to compete with an established operation in a foreign country. Tis regrettable we can't compete in many areas of manufacturing and automation and computers have taken over in some ares where skill and accuracy are a must.

Just my take on the situation.

[jerry_nj]

Well Bush is talking, as talked, with the CEOs of Ford, GM, and Chrysler (for what is still in the US, I assume), guess what they're talking about. Could it be saving the US automobile industry? All Bush has to do is put all the auto workers on Govenment Pension, then the "Big Three" may be able to compete.

[Dagwood1959]

:1106: Ok, now that the SOAP BOX is open! Ya know, all of you can get political about this import tractor. Then as this broken record goes:beatdeadh; relate it to everything that is what is wrong with everything. One thing is for sure, when buying anything new, ask yourself the question; Where will it be in 10 years....Ah the junk yard! Don't give in so quick. There are reasons why it looks great for the price. All of you are right in your own way. Yepper, Gripe about it on the way to :bannana:WalMart :bannana:(not a bad thing)!
It is my firm belief that any of the old 8Ns, 9Ns, and 2Ns (JDs etc) are worth buying and restoring.:fing32: Put your own effort into it. Make it part of you. That makes it your own, something that you can really know how to fix and aren't worried about where to get the parts if you need them.:congrats: Not so much to impress others, but to be a part of something you rebuilt, something your blood went on when you tried to break free a frozen bolt or whatever. It is part of the challenge.

My thought is I try make every effort not to become part of the "just buy the import", use it, then throw it away. Search out products made on our continent.

There are many manufactures of quality equipment in the states. Hey its my yens worth. Buy products from North American and Promote all products Built in North America!
Oh and for the record- Yes that includes :smilie_fl:OHCANCanada, Mexico, and Austrailia (Yup I like anything Aussie:trink40: ) - Buy their stuff too!

[mbkerk]

Americans want CHEAP... and that is what they buy. I am not talking about the quality, but rather the cost.

All political opinion aside, if we would all buy American, and only American, then Americans would continue to have jobs, right? However, because the American works for a higher wage, the cost of the final product has to be higher, and that forces consumers to look elsewhere for cheap whatever!

It is a vicious circle. If I had the answers, I would run for public office and save the world! The difference between me and the politicians is that I admit I don't have the answers!

I buy American when I can, but there are times when I don't want to pay $50 for a 18" crescent wrench that I will use twice a year, so I opt for the Chinese $15 model at HF. Sometimes I feel guilty about it, but I do have to put gas in the car and food on the table. Maybe I should just borrow the wrench!

In the mean time... As a Teamster truck driver... I am just happy I work in the perishable food industry... Food with a shelf life of 1 week... Bread! Hopefully it will be a while before they develop preservatives that can get a loaf of bread to stay fresh on the slow boat from China!

[DR SIVAD]

Well, one look at that grinnin' grille makes me think its Chinese, and they did that so we'd feel good, while they are ruinin' our manufacturers, witrh their cheap imports.

Say thank you to the unions. Just ask GM.

[Dan Lovell]

Did someone put a gun to the head of GM when they negotiated their contracts. Don't blame the unions, it's a two way street. Thanks to a union I'm enjoying life with a decent retirement check. I can honestly say I gave my employer 8for8 for 31yrs.

Dan

[Dan Lovell]

Mark, i'm kind of surprised they aren't building them in Mexico since labor is so cheap there. Seems like a happy medium to me for the manufacturor...where they could still control it better and still have the cheap labor too. i do believe the quality of the tractors has improved quite a bit and as i understand it now, parts are not a problem. It seems the issues are mostly the set-up of the tractor when put together here.

Dur

Dur companies are all ready moving out of Mex. for China. My SIL worked for Mirro, they moved from Wi. to Mex. Paid the employees $1.50 an hour. They are thinking about a move to China where the wage is even less. How can the US compete with that. SIL has since left and moved back to Wi. As a side note they weren't in Laredo a week and got their car stolen. Cops told them forget it, the car is already in Mex.

Dan

[Dan Lovell]

Jerry NJ,

Unless I'm mistaken the Nortracs from Northern Tool are Jinma Chinese tractors.


Jerry if I'm not mistaken Northern Tool also offers free shipping on their tractors.

Dan