Best Chinese Brand?

[baddarryl]

Considering cost, reliability, parts etc. 20-25 HP range. Thanks.

[Mickey]

Darryl, before I'd buy a Chinese Tractor of unknown qlty, I'd invest in a name brand used gray market tractor that has a proven track record. Not that hard to find qlty gray market units with under 1000 hrs for sim prices as a Chinese model. Even possible to have better chance for service on a gray market model and a Chinese model that may or may not be around in a couple yrs.

Yanmar is the most popular brand of the gray market tractors with many dealers all over the country handling and or servicing them. Plenty of Yanmar's in the 20-25 HP Range.

[xdiver86]

Good advice :congrats: :congrats: :congrats:

[mark777]

Darryl,

I've known a few dealers that have adopted the Chinese line of tractors and then dropped them a short time later (2 years). Their reasoning is the high amount of returns that are plagued with mechanical problems, hydraulic failures, broken castings and excessive engine wear creating smoke and bad compression with low hours.

There have been some great success stories where purchases have been trouble free for hundreds of hours of operation...but the majority of reports from other web sites have reported problems within the first few weeks. The biggest complaint has been acquiring parts (other than regular maintenance items) that are not readily available, and have to be shipped from over seas. There are support groups that owners have formed like CTOA (Chinese Tractor Owners of America) that share information, locate parts and discuss repair procedures that I find admirable, as many of the tractors are still under warranty and the down time is weeks instead of months...IMHO, The Chinese manufacturers will eventually work out all the "bugs" but I don't think they're currently close enough. I have not owned or even operated a Chinese tractor because the risks seemed too high, the resale value too low, and the uncertainty of reliability depends mostly on luck.

I agree with Mickey, as a good Grey market tractor that is well supported, (like Yanmar) is a much better, and nearly risk free choice when purchased through an honest dealer. A popular model in the 20-25 HP range will last you decades instead of just a few years. I have found that most people that have owned and then sell their Grey market tractor, do so to purchase a larger one.

Good luck, Mark

[baddarryl]

In truth, I am leaning Yanmar or similar and away from these things. They kind of remind me of the Soviet Yugo's! With that in mind what other gray market brands stack up fairly well to the Yanmar or Mitsubishi?

[Michael]

Zen-Noh made by Kubota comes to mind for me as I own one. Mine has been extemely reliable and the only thing I broke was the weight box support plate (which has the FEL mounted to it) and that was my fault a little bit of welding and reinforcement added no further problems from that. It has been a tough little tractor I have the ZL1801 which translates to the L185 which was sold in the U.S. in the late 1970's to the early 1980's mine was made in 1980.


Both Yanmar and Kubota have made tractors for Zen-Noh and they both have good results, You probably will find more Yanmar made Zen-Nohs then the Kubota made ones.

Zen-Noh is a rice coop in Japan and they would buy tractors in bulk from the factory and then resell them to the farmers in Japan. One thing to remember is to make sure the tractor is NOT a Vietnam rebuild if the dealer says it is and has a nice paint job run from that dealer and find another. If Mark777 comes to the site in the few days I try and get him to answer more of your questions here as he restores Japanese Yanmars and is the resident expert on these type of tractors.

[mark777]

Darryl, Michael is too kind as I'm certainly not an expert...just enjoy wrenching and working on the Japanese brands...

Here is a quick reference of Gray Market tractor manufacturers and the relationship to American brand tractors. They either have in the past, or still manufacture domestic badge'd CUT's and SCUT's for this country:

Yanmar - John Deere compact tractors
Shiabura - Ford New Holland compact tractors
Mitsubishi - Case International, Cub Cadet, Bolens & Mitsubishi-Satoh
Iseki - White, Bolens and Massey Ferguson
Hinomoto - Allis Chalmers and Massey Ferguson

Generally there are subtle differences between the Grey and it's American counterpart...ROP's, multi speed PTO's and throttle position that works the opposite way.
It is very common to walk up to an American compact utility tractor, open the hood and see a Japanese engine...(Actually it's rare to NOT see one).

Mark

[baddarryl]

Thank you gentlemen. You guys are too cool!

[Michael]

I forgot to mention that you will have to do your wrenching on the gray market tractors or find someone who does, if your gray dealer near you is reliable he will have already lined up folks who will do repairs as needed but it is a wise thing to do before you get the the tractor whatever it maybe.

A lot of the major brand dealers will not touch the tractors but some will provide parts as long as you give him what the tractor is closely related to, I have a reliable source of parts so I do not have any problems and I can repair just about anything that goes wrong with my tractor as I was a vehicle mechanic before.

This is just something that you have to be mindful of if you decide that a Gray is for you and even if you decide a Chinese tractor is for you, you will still have to do the majority of repairs yourself.

I think that the grays are a viable option for someone who has a limited amount of money and doesn't care where the tractor was orginally sold. Just be mindful that a large majority of the grays are lacking ROPS and seatbelts so it might be a good idea to find out if you can retrofit the tractor with ROPS and seatbelts, I am planning this year to install ROPS on my tractor and am probably going to do it in August or September when I have some extra money. To me ROPS is the most important safety modification you can do to any tractor that did not orginally have it and it is available.

[jdkubotamurray]

Gray is better than China tractor. Used domestic JD, Kubota, etc is better yet with US safety equipment and parts availability without question

[mark777]

Gray is better than China tractor. Used domestic JD, Kubota, etc is better yet with US safety equipment and parts availability without question


I've found that Grey Market tractors, especially Yanmars, manufactured for the last 10-15 years have all the safety equipment standard on models imported here. Neutral safety switch, PTO shields, head and directional lights are on every model. The only thing missing is the ROP's and seatbelts...and they are available (certified kits) for around $600.

Probably the biggest selling points are the limited amount of use found on these used tractors and the substantial savings when compared to a 'like domestic model'. Nearly all have less than 1000 to 1500 hours regardless of age. Also in the last few years, parts are not a problem as I can (usually) acquire a critical component overnight if necessary.

The only negative about these tractors and as Michael has stated, there are no dealerships that sell parts or perform repairs...but I have never had any problems with the countless independent diesel repair shops who perform machining and repairs without inflated labor rates.

The bottom line is the price. For owners and potential buyers looking at Grey market tractors it is obvious that finding a domestic badged model, with very low hours and in very good condition is likely impossible. And if you were fortunate to stumble across one the price would be prohibitive...(at least double).

Mark

[slipshod]

I guess the bottom line is to do your homework before you buy something and know your limitations. If you do your own repairs and service any most machines can be good ones, if you depend on a repair shop and they are reluctant to work on the type of machine you buy it can be a major hassle.

[Mickey]

I've found that Grey Market tractors, especially Yanmars, manufactured for the last 10-15 years have all the safety equipment standard on models imported here. Neutral safety switch, PTO shields, head and directional lights are on every model.

Probably the biggest selling points are the limited amount of use found on these used tractors and the substantial savings when compared to a 'like domestic model'. Nearly all have less than 1000 to 1500 hours regardless of age. ...

Mark
This describes my Yanmar to a T.

Ernie keeps several parts tractors of the model I have so even some odd stuff shouldn't be hard to come by.

[Michael]

When I bought my Zeh-Noh from a private party I did not know that it was a Gray but after I didscovered it was a gray I did not really care as it has been the most reliable piece of equipment that I own, sure it has some age related issues but all have been minor and it has taken my abuse so well I would buy another.


When I got the tractor it had 549 hours on it and this was 2 years ago and today it has 789 hours on it. So mine has low hours and it is used almost every weekend in the spring and summer doing jobs around my property and others neighbors have hired me out to stuff also.

One other advantage is the fact that the tractor will fit in the bed of my Dodge pickup and I can transport it anywhere I need to without a trailer.

[LMTC]

In my opinion.....and I will admit that I have not looked seriously at the Chinese tractors for about 2 years now.....the answer is "None."

The used japanese compacts are light years better. Only one brand has solid aftermarket support---Yanmar. There are more aftermarket parts available for grey yanmars right now than there are OEM parts for the domestically sold yanmars. Yes--there really are. :fing32: I just spent a couple of days looking at thousands of square feet of aftermarket yanmar parts, and the distributor is planning another 18,000 square feet building for warehousing more such parts. We can also access all the safety equipment for most grey yanmars...ROPS, pto shields, etc.

The Kubota manufactured zennoh is offcially banned from support by Kubota USA, as are grey market Kubotas. You can fool some dealers into selling you parts if you know what you're doing, but try asking for parts for an L2201 at a Kubota dealer. There is no one manufacturing any significant amount of aftermarket parts for them. Sure, you can occasionally find a water pump that fits one, etc., but go buy rings, pistons, head gasket, etc to rebuild an engine for one. We just bought that and sleeves, rods, all bearings AND A CRANKSHAFT for a customer who thought it was ok to run his tractor while the oil light was on. You simply couldn't find those parts for any of the japanese brands other than yanmar. Parts support for Hinomoto, Shibaura, and Mitsubishi is minimal, and again, no sort of aftermarket parts supply.

PS--we can deliver REASONABLY to most of the eastern US, and a little less reasonably to the rest of the country. See our delivery webpage.

[bjmad]

I own a Chinese tractor and have found no problems with obtaining parts. I have not had anything major go wrong with it besides normal maintenance. I have a friend with a Kubota and at 12 hours the back right wheel fell off when he was hauling some lime. He recieved great service. You need to go through a reputable dealer that is willing to come to your property to make repairs if you cannot do it. With any tractor, you should not be afraid to turn a wrench or get a little dirty. I have about 600 hours on mine and it runs fantastic. Just do your homework.

[john withers]

Buy a good used Kubota and forget the Chi-coms.

[Bolder]

Considering cost, reliability, parts etc. 20-25 HP range. Thanks.

Largest exporter from China is Jinma .... Good solid and reliable ... These tractors are shipped to the USA and other countries in SKD form ... Semi knocked down in crates.
Several USA companies assemble them, and brand them with their own name.

They should be started and run for about 30 minutes, to heat up all fluids, then a full sevice done, replacing all fluids .... we use Valvoline products...
If this is done, then they have excellent reliability.
We have clients who have used these commercially, and commonly have run up over 3000 hours ... most hours before a rebuild, is 7000 hours ... we know of 3 tractors that have reached these hours.

Service them, and house them, and they will serve you well ... join the CTOA and get other opinions.
We are from New Zealand, and get the same knockers of Chinese products here, but facts are facts, and we know they will do the hours ... Most knockers are people who have found their niche with other non Chinese brands, but we have had far more sucess wih new Chinese products, carefully researched for quality, and carefully assembled, than we ever had in importing used Japanese rice paddy tractors, that may already be 15 or more years old, and have no new parts being made for them.

Our average parts replacement cost on Jinma, YTO and DF brand tractors has been $35 per tractor, per year.
I think most other brands, regardless or which country they are made in, would not be any better than this, and probably may be a lot worse.

Dont listen to the knockers, as they usually have an axe to grind, but get in touch with the CTOA in the USA, and hear the stories from the other side of the coin.
Probably more than 20,000 Jinma alone in the USA, imported over the past 7 years.... Regards Robert / Bolder.... New Zealand and Australia importer of selected quality Chinese agricultural equipment.

[mark777]

Largest exporter from China is Jinma .... Good solid and reliable ... These tractors are shipped to the USA and other countries in SKD form ... Semi knocked down in crates.
Several USA companies assemble them, and brand them with their own name.

They should be started and run for about 30 minutes, to heat up all fluids, then a full sevice done, replacing all fluids .... we use Valvoline products...
If this is done, then they have excellent reliability.
We have clients who have used these commercially, and commonly have run up over 3000 hours ... most hours before a rebuild, is 7000 hours ... we know of 3 tractors that have reached these hours.

Service them, and house them, and they will serve you well ... join the CTOA and get other opinions.
We are from New Zealand, and get the same knockers of Chinese products here, but facts are facts, and we know they will do the hours ... Most knockers are people who have found their niche with other non Chinese brands, but we have had far more sucess wih new Chinese products, carefully researched for quality, and carefully assembled, than we ever had in importing used Japanese rice paddy tractors, that may already be 15 or more years old, and have no new parts being made for them.

Our average parts replacement cost on Jinma, YTO and DF brand tractors has been $35 per tractor, per year.
I think most other brands, regardless or which country they are made in, would not be any better than this, and probably may be a lot worse.

Dont listen to the knockers, as they usually have an axe to grind, but get in touch with the CTOA in the USA, and hear the stories from the other side of the coin.
Probably more than 20,000 Jinma alone in the USA, imported over the past 7 years.... Regards Robert / Bolder.... New Zealand and Australia importer of selected quality Chinese agricultural equipment.



Hello Robert, and welcome to MTF :Welcome1:

Interesting information about the Jinma line...and we're not so bias as to read and NOT report about success stories either :). Although this thread is 3 1/2 years old, it's refreshing to hear your, and others, reports of the tractors doing so well.

As a "Knocker", or former knocker really, I have read reports that the Chinese brands imported have increased their quality control, improved on their casting methods and parts (and service) network greatly improved as well.

It's a known fact that our consumers (in this country) bases purchases on farm equipment that is durable, highly reliable, last decades and ease of maintenance, consumables and parts availability can be performed individually. The earlier reports, unfortunately, left much to be desired about the tractor's reliability, parts support, warranties and fair resale value. It will be the next generation of perspective buyers and new owners that determine it's fate...and indeed, if the brand has improved greatly, so shall it's owner loyalty making the line more popular.

Thanks for showing us the other side of the coin.

Mark

[nuffer460]

Bolder, Glad to hear about Jinma's running up to 7000 hours before being freshened up.:bannana: I have a 2008 NorTrac 254 FEL. It started as an experiment. I told my self that I could fix what went wrong. It has 393 hours on the clock to date. It pulls a 72' Finish mower, tows a cart to my second home and hauls wood home. I purchased a Jinma 6" Wood Chipper from Ronald at Ranch Hand Supply. It runs for 3 hours straight. The temp gauge never reads higher than 170 degrees. Built two driveways for nieghbors. I know, that I told myself, " I'll use it for home use, but go to Deere,New Holland, or Kabota if I had to do professional work". The fact is it has done several jobs and can pay for itself. I may have been lucky. If you go to the CTOA site there are some serious tractor problems out there. The people there have tons of knoledge on Chinese Tractors. It seems that 2007 Jinma started getting things right.
I think that it comes down to tractor knowledge, abillity to repair, regular maintenance, and store inside when ever possible.
John

[Paul J]

Funny how (ALL) Chinese tractors are put on the junk list, usually by people who don't do their home work! There's some junk out there, but to some peoples surprise there's some damn good tractors coming from the orient. Here's a small 60hp Foton I bought two years ago and have done nothing to it but change the oil and grease it. It'll out pull my JD of equal size and cost about 1/3rd less. It has a Perkins diesel engine that runs like a dream. The undercarriage looks exactly like a Massey. I've been told that I should have bought an American made tractor. Gee, I wonder why John Deere, Americas apple pie # 1 tractor, recently bought a tractor manufacturing plant in China and merged with a Chinese manufacture ? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out! So, to each his own. http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz87/PJ161/Icons/thevilgrin0007.gif

Foton 60hp.

http://static.flickr.com/2651/4197150198_bb8a284064_d.jpg

Here's Fotons 145 hp version and they make them even bigger! One hell of a tractor!

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz87/PJ161/Farm%20Equipment/Foton_1454_with_double_rear_tyres.jpg

[dieseln]

I have a Jinma 284 28hp - bought it new in 04... 400+ hours now with no failures. I love it. Equipped with a Woods backhoe since new. Dug miles of trench and moved lots of gravel along with typ. farm chores. Only problem was 1st day a Perkins Quick Disconnect (USA part) failed and blew the hyd pump. Dealer (Tony's Tractors, North Branford) replaced the disconnect and that was it. Only mod I've done is an in-line water heater for winter starting. 20 min warm-up and it starts every time. There are a few websites that offer some real good advice about these tractors. They are very simple machines and easy to maintain.