5 hp briggs engine ,tiller with reverse. [Archive] - MyTractorForum.com - The Friendliest Tractor Forum and Best Place for Tractor Information

: 5 hp briggs engine ,tiller with reverse.


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flash5153
06-03-2012, 10:41 PM
Had someone drop this off today with a big hole in the block. Ask me to buy a replacement engine and change it.

B&S 5 HP: 135292 025401

I figured it would not be a problem until I realized it has reverse via the cam. And when I started searching on the web for a replacement.

I have been having trouble lately with finding things I need. Or maybe its what I am working on.lol
I can't find a replacement engine.
Anyone have one?? Or know where I can get one.? A bigger engine that mounts up would work too.

I may have to eliminate reverse on this tiller.(gives me many more options)

Walt 2002
06-03-2012, 10:51 PM
I doubt you will find a replacement, I am pretty sure they were discontinued probably quite awhile ago. I need three of them right now myself. MIGHT want to think about modifying a std. block and using the camshaft from the original IF it is OK.

Walt Conner

RED-85-Z51
06-03-2012, 10:57 PM
They dont exist, Briggs made a drop in INTEK replacment, but they only made them for a short period...and didnt make near enough.

matt167
06-03-2012, 10:59 PM
Snowblowers and tillers that's all I can think of that use Cam pulley. you'll need a good donor and swap the case end from the blown engine or a block and rebuild what's there, providing it's all good.. Beyond that, reject the work or inform them reverse won't work after re-power.

eedowens
06-04-2012, 10:51 AM
I know just what you are going through I have a tec 3.5 and a B&S2.5 Im trying to locate motors with cam reverse, been weeks and still no go. ED

flash5153
06-04-2012, 11:12 AM
Well. hmm?

I can't get a replacement ,,that's a sure thing. But I do have ,almost,the same engine mounted on another tiller. It has no reverse cam drive.

I thinking I can change the cover and cam ,,and it will work. Am I correct???


I need to figure out if the cam is good in this engine,,or ,,is the cam available for parts,,,new???? Has anyone looked for that??


If I go a different way,,and eliminate reverse. Is there any engines available in a bigger size??? maybe a 8hp or so??? Will just about any horizontal shaft engine work???

jdrobison
06-04-2012, 11:48 AM
try this place.
http://www.brandnewengines.com/12S492-0070.aspx

jdrobison
06-04-2012, 11:56 AM
i called and they are in stock

RED-85-Z51
06-04-2012, 12:12 PM
Id toss a 6.5 clone on it...will bolt up to the frame fine, measure from the crank, to the mounting surface on the new engine and the old engine...space the new engine up as required, briggs, hondas, clones, tecumsehs...generally all had lower crank centerlines than their Flathead predecessors.

Walt 2002
06-04-2012, 10:14 PM
"I thinking I can change the cover and cam ,,and it will work. Am I correct???"

There you go - just as I said.

Walt Conner

flash5153
06-05-2012, 12:22 AM
"I thinking I can change the cover and cam ,,and it will work. Am I correct???"

There you go - just as I said.

Walt Conner


Well if that works,,and I believe what you say,,and it will.

I could do that and sacrifice my engine for this tiller. And I could figure in the cost to buy me a replacement engine for my tiller. I'm thinking I can pick one up for $100-$150, Seems someone just has a post on here about it,,the same engine. And HF had one for $99. I went back to look and I can't find that post.

matt167
06-05-2012, 06:00 AM
I had the $100 engine coupon in my Email but accidentally deleted it ( whole super coupon flyer ). It was valid thru this month.. you can find the coupons on Ebay, otherwise the super coupon will still be on the Harbor Freight website if you can find it, But I havn't been able to find it, only an expired coupon for $109 which I found in my browser history.

flash5153
06-05-2012, 06:40 AM
Is this engine worth having?? And how does it compare to a 5 hp as far as power? 212 cc???

http://www.harborfreight.com/predator-212-cc-ohv-horizontal-shaft-gas-engine-certified-for-all-states-except-california-68120.html

I now have permission from the owner of this tiller to eliminate reverse. So my options just got much bigger for a replacement . I think I want something bigger.

flash5153
06-05-2012, 06:48 AM
Id toss a 6.5 clone on it...will bolt up to the frame fine, measure from the crank, to the mounting surface on the new engine and the old engine...space the new engine up as required, briggs, hondas, clones, tecumsehs...generally all had lower crank centerlines than their Flathead predecessors.

I am now looking for a engine that will NOT (have to)provide reverse for this tiller. And I would like to use a bigger engine. I want a new engine also. Do you know of a place that I can buy what you suggest???

Does harbor freight stock these?? I would rather not have to pay for shipping. But will if no choice.

I don't buy many "new" engines. lol And not sure what one looks like.:sidelaugh

matt167
06-05-2012, 09:49 AM
Is this engine worth having?? And how does it compare to a 5 hp as far as power? 212 cc???

http://www.harborfreight.com/predator-212-cc-ohv-horizontal-shaft-gas-engine-certified-for-all-states-except-california-68120.html

I now have permission from the owner of this tiller to eliminate reverse. So my options just got much bigger for a replacement . I think I want something bigger.


The 196-200cc Honda clones were rated at 6.5 HP, the 212cc are sometimes rated as high as 7hp, but Harbor Freight gives no rating.. I have 2 of these 212cc Predators and for the $100 they cost, there great. I would not buy 1 at full $179 price tho. Even a genuine Honda GX200 would do great and still make a very affordable repower.

eedowens
06-05-2012, 10:02 AM
HF has these in stock @ $99.00 I just put one on a old TB horse and the customer is happy as a clam ED

flash5153
06-06-2012, 05:08 PM
I went and bought the 212cc engine from harbor freight.

I installed it on the tiller,,thinking ,,wow,,this is great. Everything lined up and took minutes to change.

Filled oil/gas and started it up.

All was great,,until I put it in drive and it goes backwards!!!!

It's a reverse tine tiller. And they used the crank to run the tines and reverse gear for wheels. Forward gear was the cam pulley. (unless I have totally lost my mind)

Here's what I am going to do.

I looked at the cam on old engine and it is good. So I am changing cams and covers on my other 5 hp briggs so I can make this tiller work.

Then I will install the new engine on my tiller. I don't see any other way.

flash5153
06-06-2012, 10:18 PM
It's a little confusing but I have it done,,I think. I have to wait til tomorrow because I used permatex gasket maker. And need to let it cure. So I have not started it and run it yet.

But i took a few pics. The engine off my craftsman tiller,,5 hp briggs ,,ran pretty good so there should not be a problem. All I did was take the cam and cover off the other 5 hp briggs and exchanged them.,,so I could pick up forward gear on this mtd tiller.

They must have reversed the trans gear in the mtd. Or are all rear tine tillers like this???

Im trying to figure out why they would put the forward gear off the cam. When it used all the time,,and reverse off the crank.(hardly ever used)

The way this is set up,You can only use a engine with 2 pulleys.

38racing
06-07-2012, 09:24 AM
If I see right the crank pulley is double. in a 95 mtd handbook there is a tiller with similar setup and if i read right , rear most pulley is the tine pulley and runs off one groove of the crank pulley. reverse drive belt is outer groove of forward pulley and runs off the crank pulley. Forward drive runs off the inner groove of the forward large pulley and the cam pulley. so you need cam pulley to get forward. and does that mean reverse speed is twice that of forward.

RED-85-Z51
06-07-2012, 09:48 AM
Your engine is left side mount, so when its running, the crank is turning CCW. So the crank is hooked to the tines, so they spin reverse, and the cam, which spins opposite the crank, spins forwards, so they run the tires off of it.

Would have been less complicated to run a double pulley on the crank, and run a belt, backwards, off the top of the pulley, to achieve reverse....got to love MTD

flash5153
06-07-2012, 11:08 AM
I am wondering if there is a new engine sold with 2 shafts/pulleys. One that would fit on this tiller??

I was really wanting to put a brand new engine on this.

RED-85-Z51
06-07-2012, 11:59 AM
Briggs did make the Intek with the auxilliary PTO shaft, but it might not work in this situation, as the cam on the intek is low on the block, and your main PTO would be in the way of the belt.

I think the model was 120292 and the Type was 0570

RED-85-Z51
06-07-2012, 12:00 PM
I dunno..it might would work, maybe...

http://www.smallenginesuppliers.com/shop/html/images/small_engines/briggs/horizontal/mwe_126392-0070.jpg

Tractor-Holic
06-07-2012, 12:09 PM
Perhaps if that idler pulley had 2 sheaves instead of one,it could be used to drive the tines,as a idler running off the flat side of the belt would spin in the opposite direction than the engine....at any rate,it'll take some re-engineering!..

tomw0
06-07-2012, 12:38 PM
Red: got to love MTD...
Assuming you meant their 'designers', I can relate the story of the swabby I worked with who told me he was a GS draftsman prior to USN service.
His boss told him to draft up a machine to take in nerve/poison shells, cut them up, drain out the nerve gas/liquid, send it off to be disposed {incinerated?}, and then clean the remaining pieces of the now cut-up shell casing, and then cough them out the other end. No human intervention allowed.
One would have thought that an experienced design engineer would have been called for to make all that monkey motion happen with a decent prospect of things actually working for more than one or two cycles before jamming or something breaking. But no. It was the FedGov and GSA in particular at work. They don't need no engineers. See.
I wonder if it ever worked...
That said, I have seen products from a lot of makers and just shake my head. Sometimes they seem to use extra parts just to use up the stock from the previous model, and sometimes they skip a flat washer here and a locking tab there ... so a 3cent part can take apart a pretty expensive piece of gear... and break a lot of 'things' when it gets into the wrong spot. Do they ever have *someone* look over their shoulder and evaluate assembly labor and parts cost vs probable warranty claims when it fails?
tom

flash5153
06-07-2012, 12:53 PM
Well I fired this up and seems to run better than it ever did. All I did was change the cam really,,and the cover.

Looking at the old cam I see nothing wrong with it. Seems the lobes are not worn at all. Blows my mind.

Problem is I don't know what to charge this guy. For a used engine and my time. In a way ,,I guess he is very lucky that I had a engine I could use and make this work. And now he has some extra parts,,,a carb,tank,,rewind starter.

And I ended up with a brand new engine on my tiller. That Predator engine seems very nice.

RED-85-Z51
06-07-2012, 01:26 PM
If it were me...

150 for the engine, covers cost and time to swap the cam.

and 40 for the engine swap.

His alternatives, were to buy a new tiller, or not have a tiller, as the engine options are next to nil.

flash5153
06-07-2012, 01:43 PM
If it were me...

150 for the engine, covers cost and time to swap the cam.

and 40 for the engine swap.

His alternatives, were to buy a new tiller, or not have a tiller, as the engine options are next to nil.

LOL. I just got off the phone with him,,before I read this. I told him $180. ($10 difference.) And just about the same thing you said about engines.

I also changed all the belts,,on his request. That is not included in my price. I think they were another $50-$60 or so.

flash5153
06-07-2012, 01:46 PM
I doubt you will find a replacement, I am pretty sure they were discontinued probably quite awhile ago. I need three of them right now myself. MIGHT want to think about modifying a std. block and using the camshaft from the original IF it is OK.

Walt Conner

Thanks for the help,,,I would not have felt as confident that the cam and cover was interchangeable if not for you. It worked like a charm.

RED-85-Z51
06-07-2012, 02:13 PM
Ive got a 5hp engine here on a TB Pony, has the cover and cam intact...engine has stuck valves and a bad carb/tank....

Tractor-Holic
06-07-2012, 08:36 PM
I have a nice 6 HP Tecumseh with the double shafts on a Airens front tined tiller that doesn't look like it was used much...couldn't even get 75 bucks for it on my front lawn a few weeks ago!..all it needs is a float for the carb,I "ran out" of good used ones,and dont have $$$$ to buy a new one for something I am not keeping!..I thought the engine was worth at least 75,seeing they are "extinct" now...and quite a few snowblowers used them....
I also have a Simplicity "Roto-Cull"front tine tiller with a 5 HP "double shaft" B&S on it that runs OK,but does smoke a bit..sold another Agway one very similar to a friend for 50 bucks last year,no one else would even make an offer...guess people just dont like tillers if they aren't a rear tined version??..but I see some optimist on CL asking 125-200 bucks for those double shaft engines..wonder if anyone ever BUYS one?...

38racing
06-07-2012, 10:58 PM
I have a nice 6 HP Tecumseh with the double shafts on a Airens front tined tiller that doesn't look like it was used much...couldn't even get 75 bucks for it on my front lawn a few weeks ago!..all it needs is a float for the carb,I "ran out" of good used ones,and dont have $$$$ to buy a new one for something I am not keeping!..I thought the engine was worth at least 75,seeing they are "extinct" now...and quite a few snowblowers used them....
I also have a Simplicity "Roto-Cull"front tine tiller with a 5 HP "double shaft" B&S on it that runs OK,but does smoke a bit..sold another Agway one very similar to a friend for 50 bucks last year,no one else would even make an offer...guess people just dont like tillers if they aren't a rear tined version??.but I see some optimist on CL asking 125-200 bucks for those double shaft engines..wonder if anyone ever BUYS one?...

a friend tells me his son is looking for a tiller but I didn't have one. A week or two later he leaves a message saying his son has one but needs a pulley. After some phone tag I don't hear and then after a week he shows up in my drive with it. It's an old sears roto spader with a replacement 04 briggs 5.5 OHV engine. No bottom pulley and says fuel line leaks. So I have a 6" pulley and put it on. Have to approximate belt size so pickup a FHP one for testing. Turns out I needed to really fiddle and finally fabbed a belt retainer (angle bracket) to get it to neutral. No fuel shut-off valve so I add one. Now I find leak is not hose at carb but the carb elbow is cracked. I was able to clamp a short hose piece to the brass stub and had an elbow to bring line back to path. Oh, did I mention the tines were on backwards? So I had to turn them around. So I do the first test and notice big gap in centre of till. Centre tines are bent. So off they come and into the vice with a big breaker bar to get straightened. Next test and it tills ok except 6" pulley is too big so the tines are slow. 5 or 5.5 " might work better, cost about $15. So I take it back and say I hope he didn't pay too much as it's really old except for the engine and showed what I did. I tell him parts I put on will cost him $20. Basically I wasn't charging for time. He says the guy wanted $50. I said the motor alone was worth that if not more. But now he says he probably won't buy it. I said I'd buy it for $50. He says he's going back to the guy and tell him all the issues and he may just say to keep it. Well the guy is firm on the $50 and the friend doesn't want it so I'm taking it for the $50. Obviously if the friend doesn't want it he won't have any reason to pay me the $20 in parts ( makes it a $70 tiller, decent in my opinion) and the seller has no interest in paying me as he did not ask for it to be fixed up. So I spend more time taking my stuff off or I own it for the $50 and parts I already had on hand. I do think though that I learned a lesson in this for future reference. And I expect my friend to give me a good deal on a small wedge table I need made.

But on the other hand I lucked out and got a real nice old massey tiller for free. The engine runs but needs a tuneup .

eedowens
06-08-2012, 10:08 AM
Does anyone have a H35 tech with a 3/4 pto crank shaft, good or rebuildable? the h35 I have has a smaller shaft I think 5/8 so I cant change out the end plate, or an end plate for the smaller shaft would work, if it has the hole for cam shaft if not I'll have to put it in the mill and bore out the cam shaft plug and drill and tap 2 holes in the older end plate. IK need to get this out of my hair and move on as work is pileing up and cant spend much more time on this, been working around this long enough ED

Tractor-Holic
06-08-2012, 11:29 AM
I do have a H35 Tecumseh in my shed off a old sears snowblower,but I'm pretty sure it only has a 5/8" PTO on the crank end...I'll look at it,if it does happen to be 3/4" I'll PM you...but I'm 99% sure it isnt...

RED-85-Z51
06-08-2012, 11:34 AM
Ive got an H30 with a 7/8" crank and the last 1/2" is 5/8"....