Problems again..... What's new?

[Brett-JD3320]

Well the 6284 went down the road on a flatbed again today! Ain't it just
peachy? 35 hours and it's spent more time in the dealership shop than it has
in my basement.

Again it's back in the shop because the auxiliary hydraulic system is acting up
to the point where the power steering is jerky, the mower doesn't want to lift
nor does the front end loader.

I suspect the auxiliary pumps are shot! If this happens just one more time I
guess I will have to have a lawyer contact MTD and stard lemon law proceedings
against them (if this is possible with a tractor, I will have to do some research).


I want to again stress that my dealership is golden and they have done what
ever they can to make it right, but I am starting to think this tractor is going
to be plagued with problems and I am afraid of what will happen when there
is no more warranty.

If I can't get resolution on this, I will either go the legal route or get rid of
this machine, I can't deal with a nearly twenty four thousand dollar
piece of equipment that I can not rely on to even cut my grass which dare
I say is a trivial task my old 18hp aircooled Yardman did it for nearly two
decades without any issues other than a couple belts replaced and oil
changes.

Sad....

[bontai Joe]

OUCH! I sincerely hope it get's fixed up permanent this time.

[Jim_WV]

:1221: Wow Brett, that is just downright bad. Does Cub have a 30 day return promise thing like JD does, where you can return it if not satisfied and get your money back ?.
I'd check into that first before doing anything legal wise.

Sorry to hear and no doubt this has got to be getting frustrating :coffee:

[Brett-JD3320]

Joe,

I updated my signature...


Honestly this is very frustrating considering what the machine cost and how it seems to
be more frail than Michael Jackson after a fresh nose job!

I haven't even worked the machine "HARD" and it has problems.. This scares me to
be completely honest... I wonder if they added a "second" hydraulic pump to the aux
system because the first pump could not cut it? (the older 7000 series had one pump
and now the 6000 which is the same chasis has two) Perhaps instead of two small
pumps it needs one big one.. I have no idea...

[Brett-JD3320]

I just sent this email to MTD
<HR>

Dear Sir or Madam,

I am unable to locate a more specific email from the MTD or Cub Cadet Website; this was the only email address I was able to locate at all. Faced with this dilemma I am deciding to send this
email to you, the web master in hopes you may be able to re-distribute it to the correct powers that be. Also I just want to point out that I am not yelling, not trying to be terse in any way as
that would be unprofessional at best and I work in IT so I can understand some of the emails you probably receive on a daily basis.


My problem is that I just recently purchased a Cub Cadet (MTD) Compact Utility Tractor (CUT) for nearly Twenty Four Thousand Dollars and thus far it has practically spent more time in the
shop than it has in my garage. I am not sure how often consumers purchase a Tractor to use on their property that cost nearly the price of a new midsize Sedan automobile, but I am sure
that anyone in a similar position would be as worried as I am.

The Tractor in question is the Cub Cadet 6284D (28HP Caterpillar/Perkins Diesel) I purchased this machine brand new, it’s an 06 and I purchased it along with the #612 Back Hoe, #812
front End Loader and also the 60” rear mount finish mower. I purchased this machine from Labuda Farm Service in Herminie, PA 15637 and Tom Labuda has treated me like gold, he and
all of his fellow employees have bent over backwards for me to remedy the problems this tractor has had since I brought it home on 4/21/2006. I could not ask for a better dealer and I feel
that you (MTD) should feel very lucky to have him selling your product, if it weren’t for the way they treated me, I would have bought a John Deere or Kubota (I seriously looked at both
brands).

The problems I have been more than a minor annoyance, a few days after the tractor was delivered I was testing the back hoe when one of the hydraulic lines which was obviously defective
when manufactured, came apart and drenched me with hydraulic fluid. The hose actually pulled out of the crimp ferrule (hose and protective sleeve came out) I was not very pleased with
this failure right from the beginning, but I was willing to accept that perhaps a hose was improperly crimped at the factory where the hose was manufactured.

One call to my dealer and they immediately came down to see the problem and replaced the faulty hose the following day. I was extremely pleased with how expediently they dealt with
the issue.

Then a few weeks later I was mowing my lawn when the steering on the tractor became jerky and the mower deck (three point hitch) did not want to raise or lower, the same goes for the
front end loader it also did not want to lift and was slow and jerky in its motions. I immediately shut the machine off and let it sit for 10 minutes and checked the hydraulic fluid level and
It was full. I was baffled by this and I again placed a call to my dealer who came to get the machine within an hour.

The dealer had the machine in the shop for a few days and they replaced all the filters and flushed the auxiliary hydraulic system and replaced the fluid and they also fixed the PTO
reverse Override that also did not work from the day the tractor was new. They delivered the machine to me and all seemed well, the hydraulic system was performing the way it should
with no jerkiness and no slowness.

Today I took the machine out of the garage and I noticed that the mower seemed slow to lift, I thought perhaps the machine was cold and I stopped and let it warm up for a few minutes
and then proceeded to take the machine onto the grass and lower/raise the mower. It still raised slow and then the steering became jerky when you tried to turn the wheel (same as the
last time). I am no Tractor mechanic but I am a fairly mechanically inclined person and my assumption is that this may be a faulty auxiliary pump set (again that’s an unqualified assumption)
and perhaps it was bad the first time, we just assumed that maybe in the “break in” process the filter might have gotten dirty from break in particles. Apparently it’s more than that!

This machine has 32 hours on it and honestly I am afraid of when this tractor goes out of warranty. I am at the point right now where I do not trust that it’s a reliable machine, I am afraid that
even the slightest use is going to cause it to break and for what it cost I should not have these worries at all.

I had an MTD Yardman 18HP “Garden Tractor” that was purchased new nearly 15 years ago and it still runs like day one, in fact the new owner uses it every week to mow a large field. It’s
sad that an old Yardman garden tractor has proven to be far stouter than a machine that cost far, far more.

In closing I just want to reiterate that my dealer (Labuda Farm Service) is the best thing in the world, and you need to be very appreciative of their efforts, if it wasn’t for them I would not
own a Cub Cadet product (I more than likely would have bought the John Deere 2210 or Kubota L Series) I may have been better off with the other brands as far as durability is concerned
but the dealer was what completed the sale for me. Labuda is a fantastic dealership and I know they will “Make It Right” by me, I just pray that I don’t have lingering future problems with
this Cub Cadet product. I thank you for your time and for listening to a customer.


Sincerely,

Brett DiMichele

[modre]

I think you're handling yourself like a gentleman, and with class.

for $24K, I'd simply tell that nice dealer to either make it square post haste, or you'll have a new Kubota replacement in the garage by the end of the week...and he can either be a similar gentleman, or he can deal with your attorney...who is also a gentleman...tho a man of few words.

There's not a court in the land who would let you enter into a contract (consideration) where the product or service isn't delivered in exchange...it's just a matter of time and patience on your part, and a matter of reputation and livelyhood on his.

I have no doubt, that nice dealer is fully aware you held up your end, and the problem is on his.

[USN_ED]

Joe,Honestly this is very frustrating considering what the machine cost and how it seems to
be more frail than Michael Jackson after a fresh nose job!

Did somebody say ............. "Michael Jackson after a fresh nose job!"?

Ask and ye shall receive!! :fing20:

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/1589/noses8zt.jpg

I'd say ole Michael's nose attachments are in far better shape that your Cub.

Good luck with getting it up on it's tires and working properly. :fing32: It always chaps-my-hide when I spend good bucks for something that doesn't work properly.

[neil_nassauequipment]

Sorry to hear your problems Brett,
Let your dealer work this out.....and fwiw...the 7000 series of your machine had 1 pump for power steering and lift.When a FEL was added....a 2nd pump was in the kit. On 6000 series.the control valve and 2nd pump was standard and included in cost.

Again, something is weird here. Give your dealer this shot to square things.Sounds like he's a good guy. Cub DOES support their dealers.
Pumps are high quality us made and failure is very rare.....this sounds like a restriction somewhere.......the steering and lift control valve and loader/backhoe valve are actually two seperate circuits....so a problem that affects both is a supply one.

Hydraulics can be a little goofy though ....give him this chance.

:goodl:

[JDFANATIC]

Brett,

Hopefully Neil above has nailed this on the head.

[Scotty Dog]

And I thought I had troubles. That is a major bummer dude. Have you or your dealer heard of anyone else having these troubles with the 6000 series? Kind of makes me wanna go out and work the living snot outa mine to see if anything pops up. Sorry to hear about more trouble Bret. Hope all works out.And I am sure you are going back and forth in your head" How far do I go with this before bailing out?" At least you got a good dealer and sounds like he would back you on the decision you make. Scotty Dog

[Brett-JD3320]

Neil,

I hope they can get it straightened out. I have the utmost respect and faith in my
dealer they are a first class operation IMHO. It's the product I am quickly loosing faith
in.

[Brett-JD3320]

ED,

When I thought of that line, that photo popped in my head.. I asked for it.. HEEE HEEE! :D

JDFan,

I hope so too! Maybe if I paint the tractor Green I will be ok??? :)


Modre,

Thanks for the support, I am waiting to see what the cause is.. Perhaps we can get
this fixed and permanently behind me!


Scotty,

Sometimes you can pick a lemon from an apple tree! I think I just got lucky and picked
a tractor that had a faulty auxiliary system from the get go... We'll see what they figure
out.

[glenn27]

Brett--would it be possible for the dealer to exchange even-up for another machine, maybe? Just a thought--I can read aggrivation in your every word...

[Brett-JD3320]

Glenn that sure would be nice but it's doubtful my dealer would do that..

If this is not fixed this time, that certainly may be one of the things we will have to
discuss...


My email got bounced back by the web master, apparently he/she is too lazy to even
forward it to the appropriate people and there are no sources of contact listed on the
web site...

[jim235]

Quote " My email got bounced back by the web master, apparently he/she is too lazy to even
forward it to the appropriate people and there are no sources of contact listed on the web site..."

Sounds like them (tried getting info for my neighbour's cub) I figure, they've got your money and don't care now. :eck16:

[Brett-JD3320]

I just wanted to update the thread and let you all know that the Cub is back in it's
Cub-by hole (har har...).

The dealer again flushed the system and replaced both filters. This is all Cub would
authorize them to do at the moment and he was apolagetic for it! He said they ran it
around for a good half an hour and had no problems. I used it to cut the grass (well,
most of the grass.. the yard is soaked) and so far so good.. No odd noises and the
3PT and FEL are working HARD again as they should and no jerkiness in the steering
system either.

He said when they flushed the system it came out clean with no particulate and the
filters were not plugged. He said go ahead and work it hard if it had problems again
he would be changing the pumps out and Cub would foot the bill, he said if I continue
to have problems I will be getting another new machine he will make SURE of that!
(his words)

He also assured me if it's down for any length of time I am welcome to have him drop
off thier 7000 series with a 60" belly mower (almost bought this one used off them)
and I can use it as long as I need to!

So there we have it... A fantastic dealer who will go the distance for me! He understands
how frustrated I am and he agrees with me, but like he said, this is the first 6000
they have sold that had any issues at all, same with the older 7000 series.

[Jim_WV]

Sounds good Brett, nice to have a great dealer that cares :fing32: and hopefully the "bugs" are worked out of your machine for good.

[pigsitter]

Great to hear your up and running again!!Sounds like you have a great dealer there.If you e-mail cub again make sure to mention you've been airing all the details of your problems on this forum,it might open their eyes a little!!Good luck and hope you get lots of seat time!! :goodl: :fing32:

[jodyand]

Good deal and a great dealer you have. :congrats:

[Ingersoll444]

Thats great!!!! Nice to see you got a dealer that cares. Ya I know its a pain, but sounds like you will get this all worked out one way or another. If you need to contact MTD agean, make sure you tell thim how supper your dealer has been. Tell your frends also. It is so uncommon these days to have a great busness out there, and we know we only hear of the bad ones, so make sure you bring up how great they have been. Thats how the good ones stay in busness!!

[Brett-JD3320]

Paul,

Oh don't worry if I need to talk to any big cheese at MTD I will repeatedly praise my
dealer. I have told everyone at the dealership how excellent they have all been and
how much I appreciate all they have done and are doing for me. Fantastic people through
and through!

[neil_nassauequipment]

Glad things are back to normal...
Power steering and lift arms are on one pump, loader is on its own pump ...so if both are misbehaving it was a supply problem. Restriction or air in system. Anyway....hope this is the last of these gremlins.

[Brett-JD3320]

Neil,

Yeah everything was acting up except the main hydrostat pump (it seemed to drive
fine, steering, lift arms and FEL were the only things acting up).

Is it possible the hydro fluid was foaming? They said this time around they did not see
any contaminants come out of the fluid.

The FEL seems stronger now than I remember it being... Perhaps there was a restriction
somwhere from the get-go and it's finally out..

[jdkubotamurray]

Gotta suggest from my personal experience, try a JD or Kubota

[Brett-JD3320]

JD,

Thanks for the suggestion, it really wasn't needed.


JD's break and so do Kubota's (in fact when my dad bought his Yanmar, Kubota's
were breaking in-half at that time..)

I could have "lucked" out and had problems with a JD or a Kub... I don't beleive that
this is an inferior product, the way this tractor is made, is top notch, I just was so
lucky to get one that had a few gremlins in the system. It happens...

[Brett-JD3320]

Hey Neil,

I do have a question you may be able to answer if you have a chance. I didn't want to
ask my dealer since I have been pestering them enough :)

On the Cat motor up past the injector distribution block there is a lever, this lever is
connected to nothing, it is spring loaded and moved from the front to back of the
motor.

I was just curious what that lever is, the Perkins documentation doesn't say what it's
for and no, I am not touching it.. It just bugs me not knowing it's function!

I was thinking maybe it's a mechanical fuel cutoff?

[jodyand]

Brett I'm going to take a guess here and say that the lever is for priming the injectors. I'm just guessing.

[Brett-JD3320]

Well, the dealer said "give her a thorough workout and see if any problems
arise" can't say I didn't ablige them! I ran her for 5 hours straight today and
moved (estimating) 15 tons of dirt (still no where near done) with the FEL to
another location in the yard where I am going to do some landscape work.

I burnt half a tank of diesel (about 3.2 gallons) in five hours, I also mowed all
the grass on Saturday when they brought the machine back.

All in all I have to say she performed admirably with nary a quick, no odd
noises, no loss in pressure and if anything the FEL seems to be working
stronger than it ever has in the past.

I also had the chance to get up under the machine and grease all the zerks
and I washed the machine good and then got it all dirty again! (what a vicious
cycle!!!!) :sidelaugh

I must say I am happy again and I will need to change my signature image
in the morning.

[Ingersoll444]

Thats great!!!! Nice to hear.

[glenn27]

Brett-good to hear that all is well--at first, it was like reading an up/down horror thriller---would it or wouldn't it??
*********
You ever wonder if our "machines' (cars, trucks , tractors, etc.) plot against us humans @ night? he he ..mess w/ their minds.... :00000061:

[Brett-JD3320]

Glenn,

OH I KNOW THEY DO!!!! :)

I have ran a pair of OCE` High Speed LED Array printers for 6 years now, and I do all
the customer billing for our power company, and those fine pieces of German engineering
plot against me, NIGHTLY! And they even talk to one another!

Oy Ve!

At the end of the day I am glad to be back in the operators seat! The Cubby shook
her money maker all day long yesterday and she never said no! That made me a happy
boy :D

[rwairforce]

Brett,
Please stop!, you're bringing a tear to my eye. :sidelaugh
I just love happy endings. I have less then an acre and right now I wish I had at least 10 acres just so I could get one of those! What a fantastic looking and working machine. Enjoy and keep the bucket out of any low hanging wires. :duh:

[Brett-JD3320]

RW,

I am certainly glad I can bring a smile to someone's face via my postings! :)

I do not have ten acres just two and some change, but I am also a firm beleiver in: "Too Much is JUST RIGHT!" :D

[jdkubotamurray]

No need to take offense since you posted all the Cub "out of crate" issues. As I mentioned this was advice from my personal experience which has included alot of tractors of many brands over the years. Also alot of cars and trucks over the years till I moved to Toyotas.
:lb5:

[Brett-JD3320]

JD,

Talk to a Toyota Mechanic..

I take offense to the tone of the post. Problems happen in all brands and if you
haven't had problems you've just been lucky as far as my eye see's it. I have had more
cars than I can count, I often hear people put down Dodge and guess how many times
my Ram has been in the shop? (none) and it's pulled a 5000+ Lb boat a couple thousand
miles already.

I posted my experiances with my Cub but that does not reflect all of Cub Cadet's product
line in any way shape or form. There are hundreds of thousands of satisfied owners out
there. And I am a satisfied owner too, as long as I get service, which I have.


If you don't wish me to counter your posts, then don't post in my topic. If you want to
have level headed debates (which we are) then you are more than welcome to express
your "opinion" so long as you are open to mine also. :)