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: Alternator isues TN55


AERDAVID
01-04-2012, 06:38 PM
Greetings all, I have a 2000 TN55 New Holland that I have just changed out the alternator and regulator, I know new oines can be bad too but maybe I have overlooked something? I will try and keep this as short as I can. Like I said new alt all is hooked up right, but I have no volts, (FYI) the charging light don't work and the starter relay don't either ( I bypassed the starter relay) ??? could the starter relay ,the lack of dash power to guages,and warning lights have any thing to do with it ? The alt. didn't work when I bought it. Thanks, David

Down South
01-04-2012, 07:37 PM
I am not familiar with a TN55 But the charge light is a key circuit in turning on the regulator. And if the starter sol is inop there may be several dead wires, safety switches, relays and or fuses involved.

Get a wiring diagram and a multi meter.

DS

donimbimbo
01-05-2012, 06:08 AM
The replacements came from New Holland? Or did you get them somewhere else and had to do some wiring to make them fit?

Alternators require an "exciter" voltage before they will generate. If it's an external regulator, then the exciter voltage comes from the regulator.

Sure sounds like something is hooked up wrong.

cyrus
01-05-2012, 09:38 AM
Greetings all, I have a 2000 TN55 New Holland that I have just changed out the alternator and regulator, I know new oines can be bad too but maybe I have overlooked something? I will try and keep this as short as I can. Like I said new alt all is hooked up right, but I have no volts, (FYI) the charging light don't work and the starter relay don't either ( I bypassed the starter relay) ??? could the starter relay ,the lack of dash power to guages,and warning lights have any thing to do with it ? The alt. didn't work when I bought it. Thanks, David

David:
Sounds like you do NOT have any power to your ignition key switch. Before you go any further, you need to get power to that. That switch provides power to your alternator to "turn it on" and also to operate you starter solenoid.
I have had problems in the past with bad ground connections from battery to frame as well as bad connections at positive from battery to starter. I'd check those two items, first.
you may email me at: cyrus47@hotmail.com
if this is not enough information. I don't have any tractors that new to reference, but New Holland does have good references on line. Besides, most alternators are fairly simple, once you figure out what is going on. Took me years to give up on generators. Now, I wouldn't have anything else but an alternator.
Cyrus
:MTF_wel2:

AERDAVID
01-05-2012, 09:40 PM
The new alt. and regulator came from Messicks and I am sure of the install. I don't have any fire at the warning light which means I dont have any "exciting" going on I just don't know why. I had checked the ground but didnt check the + at the starter,I will but it starts fine. Is there a obvious ground for the instrument panel? The ignition sw is hooked up correctly. I traced the red light wire from the inst. panel the the alt. I guess the power I am missing comes from the panel somehow when the swich is turned?. Thanks guys keep em comming please. David

cyrus
01-06-2012, 10:29 AM
David:
The new alt. and regulator came from Messicks and I am sure of the install. I don't have any fire at the warning light which means I dont have any "exciting" going on I just don't know why. I had checked the ground but didnt check the + at the starter,I will but it starts fine.
That tends to indicate the positive side is fine. You mentioned the ignition switch is hooked up correctly. I am going to assume that you checked that. I have had cases where the connections on the back came off. Earlier though, you mentioned having to jump the starter because the switch didn't work it. Now you say the starter works fine. Which is it? Right now, it sounds as though the power is not getting from the starter solenoid connection(where the power comes directly from the battery)to the ignition switch. Check the small wire attached to that connection. It feeds power to the ignition switch. If you have no power from that point to the ignition switch that could be your whole problem. C
Is there a obvious ground for the instrument panel? The ignition sw is hooked up correctly. I traced the red light wire from the inst. panel the the alt. I guess the power I am missing comes from the panel somehow when the swich is turned?. Thanks guys keep em comming please. David

AERDAVID
01-06-2012, 12:13 PM
I don't think I said I had to jump the starter, I did have to jump the (starter relay) located in side the dash next to the flasher. I connected the two soleniod wires together sending 12v to the starter when the key is switched to the full start position. it had power from the switch but wouldn't come through the relay from the key switch to the starter solenoid. The ign switch has all wires (colors) to the correct tabs and the switch operates fine (its pretty new too). Thanks

H-D
01-07-2012, 03:19 AM
Aged parent's TC 29 had problems with the neutral safety switch which caused the same symptom. The 3 speed range selector has 2 neutral positions & we just went to using the alternative one, waiting for total failure before fighting with all the busyness associated with the switch. Best I recall, the neutral switch provides a ground to the low-amp side of the starter relay (not solenoid) which is located under the plastic clam shell covers below the steering column. You might try working the range selector back & forth through all positions while holding the ign. switch in 'start' to check for bent/badly adjusted linkage. HTH!

cyrus
01-07-2012, 09:16 AM
I don't think I said I had to jump the starter, I did have to jump the (starter relay) located in side the dash next to the flasher. I connected the two soleniod wires together sending 12v to the starter when the key is switched to the full start position. it had power from the switch but wouldn't come through the relay from the key switch to the starter solenoid. The ign switch has all wires (colors) to the correct tabs and the switch operates fine (its pretty new too). Thanks


The solenoid on most newer tractors is on the starter. I also question your replacing the voltage regulator, as it should probably be inside the alternator instead of a separate item.
The neutral safety switch would not keep the alternator from charging once the tractor is started.
I did have a '95 or so NH 3010 with alternator charging problems. I suspected overheated wires and wired around the problem area on that one.
Do you have an owner's manual? If so, does it mention any fuses that might be in the charging circuit? Massey Ferguson used to put fuses in their system, unlike most other brands.
Let's confirm some other voltage points:
take your voltage test light and check for 12 volts at the big wire at the alternator. It should be hot at all times.

cyrus
01-07-2012, 09:32 AM
Here's a source for a repair manual from NH, but it is $60 to download. I'm still checking for free info.....



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New Holland TN55 TN65 TN70 TN75 Tractor Workshop Service Repair Manual

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This is the New Holland TN55 TN65 TN70 TN75 Tractor Workshop Service Repair Manual for New Holland Agricultural Farm tractors. This is just like the original factory paper manual made for these New Holland farm tractors; the only difference is its not paper, and doesnt need to be shipped!

Like the paper manual, it has many sections that are neatly organized in Adobe Acrobat, very clean, sharp images that are scalable to several times normal size. There are tons of diagrams, schematics, illustrations, specifications, pictures, step-by-step instructions, special tool info etc.

Service Repair Work Shop Manual 870-Pages, 14-Sections

This service manual covers model TN55 TN65 TN70 TN75 New Holland AG & farm tractors built from 9/1999 through 12/2003. Including diesel 3 cylinder engines. Attachments such as loaders and backhoes are beyond the scope of this repair service shop manual. Coverage of individual model names listed below.

TN55
TN65
TN70
TN75

Zoom it, print it, save it, close it. Print a few pages at a time, as you need; no need to lug that bulky binder around anymore! No need to worry about stained, torn or missing pages. Each section is indexed for fast & easy referencing. Each section covers a different area of the machine:

Section Index:

GENERAL INFORMATION
ENGINE
CLUTCH
TRANSMISSIONS
DRIVE LINES
FRONT AXLE
MECHANICAL TRANSMISSION
REAR MECHANICAL TRANSMISSION
MECHANICAL POWER TAKE OFF PTO
BRAKING SYSTEM
HYDRAULIC SYSTEM
STEERING
AXLES AND WHEELS
ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
PLATFORM, CAB, BODYWORK

Once you buy the manual, you will get a link in your email, then just go view it, print it, and save it for use later on. This has every page that is in the paper service manual. Viewed in popular Adobe PDF format, which most computers have already. To download the latest free viewer, go to www.adobe.com/reader



About Ford New Holland

New Holland started with one corn mill in the state of Pennsylvania, first built in 1895. The company then expanded into farm implements and later found success with automatic hay balers. New Holland was acquired by Ford Tractor Operations in 1985, and the Ford New Holland name began to appear on tractors. In 1990 Ford sold a majority interest in its farm machinery operations to a foreign company called FIAT, with the agreement that the Ford name be dropped in ten years.

Tractors began to be released under two names: New Holland in traditional Ford tractor markets, and FIAT in their traditional markets. In 1999, Case IH and FIAT New Holland merged to form CNH Global (Case New Holland) which continutes to built tractors under the New Holland brand.

New Holland produces both Agricultural farm equipment, and Heavy construction equipment like backhoe, skid steer loader, excavator, mini excavator, and wheel loader. The tractor models included in this service workshop repair manual are TN55 TN65 TN70 TN75.

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Down South
01-07-2012, 10:16 AM
Knowing what alternator and regulator would make it easier for us to guess.
Did you have your old stuff checked to see if it was Bad?

DS

AERDAVID
01-07-2012, 11:05 AM
H-D, I will check that. Cyrus the voltage regulator is in the alt. but thee is a smaller relay size 2 pin (tab type) bolted on the alternator bracket that NH calls a voltage regulator, (fisst I have seen) anyway I replaced it first because one of the tabs was rusted off and inside the connector. No owners manual and I do have 12v at the alt heavy cable at all times, the v is only comming from the battery. I did download and pay for the repair manual it is not really user friendly as far as real trouible shooting, it's more for the trained NH shop guy. It shows values and such and has been some help with volt and olhm testing only, the schem sections should have stayed in a book, (imho)(hard to see) Down South the alternator is a RTT119AC Magneti type (very typical with an internal voltage regulator and an external voltage regulator circut. It is the type that the rotor needs energized from the warning light circut inorder to start charging. Outside it looks like any Delco remy on a chevy ect, by the way its a 45 amp. No auto parts store would do a bench test for me claiming they didn't have the output specs for that alternator (bs) I figured it to be bad from past experience tests (everything else was "ok". belt tight wires, batt, ground, ect. If this helps the only thing on the dash that works is the pto indicator light (which is allways on) and the signal light indicators. Thanks, David

AERDAVID
01-07-2012, 11:16 AM
By the way I really do thank you all the extra efford you are giving and hope I can return the favor some day (but hope you don't need it), David

Down South
01-07-2012, 11:34 AM
Its odious you have some wiring, switch,fuse relay issues But.

With your numbers this is all i have found.
http://cn.oemol.com/oem/en_oem_detail/25840/RTT119AC/MAGNETI%20MARELLI_VoltageRegulator.html

The regulator, one or both of the plug in need 12v. guessing

The voltage stabilizer ?
http://anklauto.en.alibaba.com/product/496430901-212308206/IX595_12V_MAGNETI_MARELLI_automatic_voltage_stabil izer.html

References to 633-200 and 633-210 as the alternator. Then nipondenso 101210-016 and Opel 130 amp
http://www.rmlunits.com/Vauxhall_Opel_Saab__Car_Commercial__Alternator/100-466/

But all that means is some of the same parts inside


One solution is to convert to a delco 10si but you need to deal with the wiring as well.

Got any small alternator generator shops in the area?

DS

AERDAVID
01-07-2012, 03:12 PM
Ok, from what youall have said and what I have found I think it may be gearbox,pto switch somewhere since I can jump the starter relay and get Ign but no alternator to kick in I have disconnected the range gear and transmission safety switches each and don't get olhms in or out of gear ! How do they work? Can they both be bad? does anyone know for the circut to work should they be closed? I think I'm getting closter.

AERDAVID
01-07-2012, 05:55 PM
Ok, from what youall have said and what I have found I think it may be gearbox,pto switch somewhere since I can jump the starter relay and get Ign but no alternator to kick in I have disconnected the range gear and transmission safety switches each and don't get olhms in or out of gear ! How do they work? Can they both be bad? does anyone know for the circut to work should they be closed? I think I'm getting closter.

I now think I need to contact Messicks, I performed the tests as follows, with the + lead and the warning light lead disconnected it took a volt meter and checked for power at both leads , I have power @ the + lead but none @ the light lead (this is with the key (on) I then growned the light lead and still no light @ the dash. So I can only assume (hate that word) that the alt is bad. And I have been testing for the fun of it.?? I will let you know the outcome for future situations. Thanks all again.

Down South
01-07-2012, 06:16 PM
Unplugging the light wire from alt and grounding it should make the light come on but the power comes from the dash/switch.

Messicks may be better able to tell you how to test.

cyrus
01-08-2012, 09:31 AM
I now think I need to contact Messicks, I performed the tests as follows, with the + lead and the warning light lead disconnected it took a volt meter and checked for power at both leads , I have power @ the + lead but none @ the light lead (this is with the key (on) I then growned the light lead and still no light @ the dash. So I can only assume (hate that word) that the alt is bad. And I have been testing for the fun of it.?? I will let you know the outcome for future situations. Thanks all again.

David:
Since you have the diagrams, would it be possible to copy the page from the manual and email it to me?
I do not think there is anything wrong with your alternator, and possibly the one you replaced. You are not getting voltage from the ignition switch to it to "turn it on" and therefore no output. If I were there I know some tricks to show you it works, but don't want you to try them and touch something wrong and ruin the alternator/regulator and that "voltage stabilizer". I suspect that item is in there to protect the voltage regulator from over voltage surges which would "fry" it.
There should not be any thing in that circuit of safety switches that should affect the alternator light. I had previous problems years and years ago with a Massey Ferguson with not alternator output and found out it was energized by an oil pressure switch, under the dash, and the wire plug had slipped off the switch. Haven't seen anything like that since. (it was a great idea and protected the batteries from discharging by folks that forget to turn the ignition key off on diesels with manual shut off rods.)
Your situation could be something simple like a bad resistor in that "idiot light" circuit, which would prevent the circuit from functioning because it would be open. Diagram helpful. I can enlarge it, if you can email it to me. Cyrus

AERDAVID
01-08-2012, 11:12 AM
Send me you email, I can't send attachments through here, or I can scan it and send as a jpg, thanks David

cyrus
01-09-2012, 10:17 AM
Send me you email, I can't send attachments through here, or I can scan it and send as a jpg, thanks David

It was in my first post: cyrus47@hotmail.com

I found a TC33 yesterday and thought maybe I could get a better idea of what we're dealing with......ha!!! Different alternator and no way to look at anything under the dash!
On the bright side, this alternator, like most of my Delco alternators, has 3 wires. two smaller wires plug into the side of it. One of those wires will be used to turn it on and, typically, the other wire will be hot all the time, just like the BIG wire. With that in mind, check the two small wires on your and see if one is hot, with the ignition key off.

cyrus
01-09-2012, 10:24 AM
Ok, from what youall have said and what I have found I think it may be gearbox,pto switch somewhere since I can jump the starter relay and get Ign but no alternator to kick in I have disconnected the range gear and transmission safety switches each and don't get olhms in or out of gear ! How do they work? Can they both be bad? does anyone know for the circut to work should they be closed? I think I'm getting closter.
Typically safety switches have to be closed for anything to work, however, usually those safety switches only affect the starting circuit, not the running circuit, which is where your alternator would be.

AERDAVID
01-26-2012, 08:24 PM
What a wonderfull day , The NT55 is fixed! FYI The short in the system that effected so many circuts turned out to be a break in the circut line on the backside of the circut board in the sealed instrument cluster, a hot lead feeding power to the alternator/batt charge light. Undetectable from the front. This effected the charging system, instrument pannel ingnition ststem and safety switch operation. Thanks to all for your input and a special thanke to CYRUS whom I couldn't have done this without. Thanks for your many hours and days of input and knowledge.