Metal work tips

[Ingersoll444]

OK, well I have done some repair, and welding on sheat steel, but only small places, and my N is probably my biggest job. I have some dent removel, and patches to weld in also.

OK, on the fenders... I have some small patches to weld in. these I will butt weld, becouse bolth sides are out in the open. I also have to fill some holes, and fix some small bends.

On the hood I have some wavyness to fix, dents to pop, and a patch to weld in. For the patch... I know a butt weld would be the best, but being I am a bit new with tin welding, I was thinking maybe put a little flange on it, and do a lap weld. or some plug welds. it would be a lot easyer for me, and you cant see the back side anyway, so thats not an issue. Any con's to this? Also for the wavyness, and quick tips? Also you think I should fix the dents, and waves before the patch goes in, or after?


Any general info would be great also. thanks for any help.

[mark777]

Paul, I think it's best if you straighten all the sheet metal before you apply any patches or welding. The best method (for me) is to lay a piece of carpet on top of plywood and work your metal from the inside out. You will be surprised how much a small piece of 2X4 , struck with a medium hammer will smooth out some pretty wavy metal. Then I would work the smaller dings and dents with hammer and dolly, or any small chunk of smooth steel...tapping rather than pounding produces better results AND much less risk of stretching (oil canning) the metal.

Chances are good that 60 year old sheet metal has been worked a few times already...When you re-work the metal, and some areas "oil can" the last step of welding your patches will help (greatly) pull and gather the remaining stretched metal....just like tightening a banjo string.

I agree with butt welded patches on the fenders, as they are viewed from both sides, a light grinding on the welds and a very light (skim coat) of filler will make the repair undetectable. Personally, I would drill the piece DrB sent you, align and attach with small sheet metal screws from the underside of the hood, and plug weld in a fashion just like torqueing a cylinder head (in a criss-cross pattern), remove screws and weld the last remaining holes. A light coat of rubberized (paintable) undercoating will make your repairs nearly impossible to see unless your looking for that specific repair.

Hope this helps..Mark

[Ingersoll444]

Paul, I think it's best if you straighten all the sheet metal before you apply any patches or welding. The best method (for me) is to lay a piece of carpet on top of plywood and work your metal from the inside out. You will be surprised how much a small piece of 2X4 , struck with a medium hammer will smooth out some pretty wavy metal. Then I would work the smaller dings and dents with hammer and dolly, or any small chunk of smooth steel...tapping rather than pounding produces better results AND much less risk of stretching (oil canning) the metal.

Chances are good that 60 year old sheet metal has been worked a few times already...When you re-work the metal, and some areas "oil can" the last step of welding your patches will help (greatly) pull and gather the remaining stretched metal....just like tightening a banjo string.

I agree with butt welded patches on the fenders, as they are viewed from both sides, a light grinding on the welds and a very light (skim coat) of filler will make the repair undetectable. Personally, I would drill the piece DrB sent you, align and attach with small sheet metal screws from the underside of the hood, and plug weld in a fashion just like torqueing a cylinder head (in a criss-cross pattern), remove screws and weld the last remaining holes. A light coat of rubberized (paintable) undercoating will make your repairs nearly impossible to see unless your looking for that specific repair.

Hope this helps..Mark



OK, lots of great info there mark!!!

Now the 2x4 to get the waves out??? Can you go a little more into that? I assume you are meaning put the wavy part on a padded flat serfece[the ply, with carpet] and use the 2x4 to spred the hammer blows over a wider aera. Am I on the right track?

And the patch...

Now I am not up on my terms so much.. I assume a plug weld is like a spot weld, or what I have heard of as a roset [sp] weld. Am I in the ball park? Also would I be right in thinking I shold flange that patch first so it fits level with the top?

[Maybar]

The only tip I can think of that may help is to find some similar thickness metal and practice your welding techniques, and success is about 90% dependant on position.

Needing practice is nothing to be ashamed of. It's not uncommon for pipe line welders with all the credentials to have to re-test and sometimes fail the first test.

[Ingersoll444]

Yes Maybar, I agree 100%. I have been spending some time sticking peices of tin together, and I am getting a bit better at it. Hard to find the thicker stuff that they used back then, but I figure if I can weld the thinner stuff, the thicker stuff will be easy.

[mark777]

Exactly on the 2X4 part.

The plug weld is pretty much the same as a spot weld except stronger and your top piece has deliberate holes drilled (1/4"-5/16") and the bottom piece clean, shinny metal. Not sure if you can use vice grips to hold your pieces together because of your repair location...so small sheet metal screws are the next best thing.

If you have a pneumatic or hand flanger that's great...makes for an excellent repair and the welds can be gently smoothed out with a small grinder. It's best when you start your weld in the center, working in a cross pattern and finishing at the ends. It keeps warping to minimum and eliminates any gaps or small buckles from forming.

You may have seen metal men (in a body shop) who spot weld, grab a hammer and dolly and quickly tap on both sides of the weld - forming the metal and keeping gaps to a minimum. Plug welding with a MIG eliminates that whole process...And I agree with Maybar 100% too. Every time I weld anything I always have a piece of metal similar in thickness and warm up the machine by making half a dozen practice welds, get COMFORTABLE, and switch my clamp and go to work.

I am positive you wont have any problems and I look forward to seeing pictures of the work in progress.

Mark

[mark777]

Paul, I went out to the shop, cut the dirtiest, thinnest and crapiest piece of metal I could find. Cut it in 3 pieces, flanged and punched the center piece and welded them together.

I intentionally took hardly any time, slammed the thing together and hoped to produce a piece that would appear to be a "Quickie"...the whole project took 15 minutes..

First picture shows the cut metal, holes drilled (punched) and flanged center-
Second shows the plug welds dressed (ground down) but not completely-
Third is the metal standing on end to show how uniform all three pieces are-
Last one is to show you that the absolute minimum filler would be used to fill any imperfections....I rattle canned it black to show up the flaws.

Hope these pictures help describe what I was saying in the above posts.

Mark

[Ingersoll444]

WOW!!! Thanks Mark!!!!!!!!!!!1 Thats what I was thinking you ment. thanks for the picts it does help!!!!!