SNAP!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ingersoll444]

Been one of those weekends for sure!! :bonk:


I was romoving the head studs from my N motor, and of corse one of them goes SNAP!! No big problem, go to my tool box, get my easyout, and go at it. Well I dont think I have to tell you what happand next. SNAP!!!!! broke the easyout off in the bolt. DOHHHHH :fing20: :fing20:


Anyone got any tips for me? It is snapped off below the deck BTW.

[chipmaker]

High speed pencil grinder with a carbide burr will remove the broken easy out. NOt fun for sure. You may also be able to use a cobalt drill bit. Use a die grinder or dremel, and make a start point for it in the end of the easy out, and using a variable speed drill and lots of pressure you should be able to drill it. If the cobalt will not do it, you can get carbide drill bits. Once you get the easy out removed, use a left hand drill bit as a lot of times they will in the process of drilling out the stud etc aide in loosening up the broke part.

Is there any way you can get to it with a long punch with just a slight point on the end, and tap that easy out in the clockwise position, as all its gonna take is to just move a slight bit and it should back on out. I have already drilled into easy outs and ran a coarse thread tap into them slightly or drove the tang end of a file into the hole and backed em out.

[Ingersoll444]

I will give that a shot, thanks.

[Ingersoll444]

Well no luck. I picked up a carbide bit yesterday, and I will see how that does. If not, looks like it is off to the michine shop to see what they can do. You know, it kinda PO'ed me. The drill size the EZout said to use, I think was way to small. Only about the first 1/4" of the easy out went in the hole. I think if I had drilled a bigger hole, the thicker part of it would have went in, and it would have come right out.

[chipmaker]

It can be counter productive to drill a bigger hole for an easy out than needed. What happens is as you increase the diameter of the easy out thats going into the hole, the wall thickness of the stud is also thinner, so pressure exerted outwards by the easy out can expand the studs / bolts remaining walls and force them into the blocks material making it even tighter. On easy outs its best to go with the smallest size possible to eliminate the expansion of the broken stud or bolt

[LEOLAV]

Good point Chipmaker.

[Argee]

Yes...an excellent observation Chip!

[Carl]

Did ya get it out yet??? We want to hear about some success here!

Chip,
I think that I heard somewhere that studs can be blown out with an oxyacetlene torch. Seems that the cast iron will not burn in the flame, only the steel stud. Is that true?

[gwill]

Consider it a test... that you failed. EZ Outs aren't made to remove twisted off studs... they're made to sell to gullible folks that think there's a magic device to remove a stud or bolt that's stuck so tight the bolt twists off. :fing20: It's a lesson we all have to learn some time. Now... do yourself a huge favor and collect all the EZ outs you can find and throw them in the trash where they belong! :00000060:

George Willer

[professor]

Chipmaker, you are a sharp guy. A definite asset to this forum. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. When you talk about e-z outs do you include the straight types in your thinking?, I am inclined to think they might work better.
Carl, I have used a torch to blow out bolts but only real big ones, the trouble is that once you do some burning it better go well because it makes a mess out of the object you are melting. try the carbide method.

Mike

[chipmaker]

I can't speak bad about an easy out as they have saved my but many many times.........Used properly they usually work, but sometimes a little foresight like heat, penetrant oil etc applied prior to using it makes for a lot of difference in it working or not. I usually use dye penetrant spray which is a flourescent yellow spray used for finding cracks in parts and welds etc. It works better IMHO than any other product out there, PB blaster included. I like to drill the hole for an easy out with a left hand drill as well as drilling creates a bit of heat, and it forces the broken stud or bolt in the direction it needs to go to be removed......again additional little things help. Before drilling I usually take a long prick punch and tap it a few times counter clockwise if possible....but first thing I always do is apply dye penetrant. I use both spiral and tapered shank easy outs, but my preference is spiral. With a straight type you have to apply more inwards or down pressure on it as it does not bite in as hard as a spiral type does.

I have also uysed a torch to blow out studs as mentioned, and also welded on a nut on a stuf with a portion that was still accessible that was still refusing to come out with a vise grip on it. EDM is the way to go, and believe it or not., a fellow with a bit of time could make a EDM machine out of scrounge items........

One item I will say is a joke in a sort of way is the broken tap extractors. If the tap was being used to clean out previously cut threads and not real pressure was applied they work, but if its a tap broken during cutting of new threads they are useless.

A good carbide bitl or pencil type grinder with a solid carbide burr usually makes short work of broken taps, easyouts and lots of other things. SOmetimes just keeping on enlarging the hole, and then usuing a prick punch to peel out the threads works fine as well.......but you have to drill the hole as close to dead on center as possible. I like a challenge on getting broken bolts etc out of items.I used to have a lot of experience with my old GM diesel and its starter bolts that were nortorious for shearing off.

So, Ingersol, is it out yet or whats the story?

[Ingersoll444]

Nope not yet. I picked up a carbide bit, just have not tryed it yet. I will give it a shot, before the block go to the michine shop. If not, maybe they can do something.

[mike]

If you have a welder, you can set a nut on top of the stud and weld them together from the inside of the nut. The heat from the weld will help. You can also try welding a washer on the stud first (because it's thinner)then the nut on top of the washer.

[JoeJ]

If going with the weld method, be sure to ground to the nut. NOT through the block and threads. *LOL* just believe me, cause I'm not tellin how I know.

[Ingersoll444]

First welcome Mike!

The welding a nut part will not work in this case. Its busted off below the serfece.

[Willie Nunez]

I've got lots and lots of experience doing this. I just hope I never have to use it. :bannana:

Actually, I just wanted a place to use the banana ROF

[chipmaker]

Nope not yet. I picked up a carbide bit, just have not tryed it yet. I will give it a shot, before the block go to the michine shop. If not, maybe they can do something.

Paul........Since you got the carbide bit, just use it carefully. They do work better in a stationary machine like a mill or drill press so a "lot" of "Even" pressure can be applied. Grind the end of the easy out as flat as possible and do your best to spot it with a center punch, so the carbide drill does not slid off to the side as its easy to break the carbide bits if they skip across a surface and hit an edge etc. They also do not take any kind of flex or sideways strain, and will break, especially if its a solid carbide bit, and not just a carbide tipped steel bit. Until you get it started, give the drill a few sort bursts of power, before bowing up with some good downward force and a steady rpm.....usually carbide likes to be turned faster than cobalt or HSS does, but it all depends on the grade carbide and the type of bit you have....

Hey if your carbide bit fails, I have some diamond bits I know will work, you can drill through taps with them..........but you need a machine to use them.......not a hand held drill.......I rarely use the diamond and even the carbide bits I have, but when needed they are extremely handy to have and there is no substitute.

[Ingersoll444]

Well, I called my michane shop today to see what they had to say. Well, we are looking at $60 an hour, and a ball park estment of 3 hours to get most out. May be less, may be more. Hmmmmmm may have to work some more at it. Been kinda putting off working on this tractor, till I get this done. Looks like a rainy weekend, so I wil see what I can screw up today. :(

[Ingersoll444]

Well after 2 hours of trying I have done nothing bu snapped two drill bits, and a punch. Still no go. Think I have just about given up unless anyone has an idea for me. This is a picture of were I am now.....

[drbailey]

Paul , is there a drill bit or easyout in that hole right now ?

[dirtybernie]

paul. i say you buy chipmaker a plane ticket and have him straighten it out. when your done with him send him over here! ROF

[Ingersoll444]

Yupper. There be an EZout.[a bad name if I ever heard one!!!!] Tryed working it out, or working the screw out with a pinch. Tryed drilling, but it keeps walking off the hardened EZout.

[cadurning]

The problem with drilling the easy out is that the easy out is hard. If you have a torch try melting the hardened easy out out of the hole. If all goes well all that will be left is the stud with a hole in it. Here is where a vert. mill or a good drill press comes in. I have had to drill a hole in the stud the same size as the root size of the stud threads, then used a dental pick to pick the remains out of the threads in the block. If the drill gets off center be prepaired to swear a lot. If the hole really gets screwed up, there are ways to fix it but it ain't pretty.

[drbailey]

Paul , here`s something you can try . Go to mmsonline.com
A machine shop forum , I scanned down the forums , I didn`t see anything that would quickly answer your problem. However the question and answer forum seems down to earth.

[Bruceman]

Caduring mentioned blowing it out. Look around for a good welder. using an Oxy/Ace setup, my father can blow a broken bolt completely out of the hole, without damaging the threads. I haven't have the nads to try it myself in a real-world situation, just pick up the phone and holler help, if I can't get it.

[chipmaker]

Paul, do you have a high speed grinder or a dremel tool......YOu can grind the broken edge of that easy out easly with a carbide or diamond burr, YOu can probably grind it out all the way if you want to spend the time, but I owuld use the dremel or high speed to sort of make a spsot so the drill bit doe snot walk, apply lots of pressure and a slow steady rpm and it should drill out.........Too bad Hurricane Dennis is not heading south from the north, you cold just set the part outside and I oculd catch it as it goes by........I would remove it for you if I had it..I may just have to hang a shingle outside and start charging what that machine shop charges per hour......but I am usually happy just getting a big old thanks a lot, and a lot of folks come back and drop off nice fresh veggies and home made pies.......Guess things would be different if I was scratching out a living, but all I am doing is just living and having fun.....and do not view anything as real work anymore.

[Ingersoll444]

I do have a dremel, but I dont have a carbide, or diamond burr. Were would I get one? My hardwere store did not have one. is that something HD. or Lows would have?

[chipmaker]

I do have a dremel, but I dont have a carbide, or diamond burr. Were would I get one? My hardwere store did not have one. is that something HD. or Lows would have?

I have read on a few aquarium forums that folks have been buying diamond burrs at HD and Lowes.........I could not say they do myself, as I usually order such items from MSC or ENCO, and have never looked for those type things there/ Seems understandable they would since they sell dremel tools....

[Ingersoll444]

So would I be best off grinding the stud from around the EZout, or grinding the EZout out of the stud?

[Ingersoll444]

Oh, and another dumb mastake. I thought I had a few carbide drill bits, but of corse I was being a moron. they were colbolt bits. The easyout just chuckeled at it when I tryed to drill with it.

[chipmaker]

Ewwwwwwwww, live and learn huh? Cobalt sure is not gonna work....I personally would work at removing the easy out. Get a hole into it, and preferably through it, work off to one side more than the other so you can sort of whittle it out. I fyuou can penetrate one edge a good prick punch may be able to be used to catch it and with a hammer blow make it crack.....sufficiently to pick the pieces out. Then you can work on the stud......which you can also grind to one side more, but I would try drilling it as deep as possible, and fill it up with a good penetrating oil, and let it soak......I assume you also have been keeping it wet with penetrating oil all this time. Some pen oils work faster than others, and I have found that the yellow dye penetrant works better than any penetrating oil does. It can be found at welding supply stores and its used to look for cracks etc. That stuff is hands down the best stuff to use as a penetrant....Bout 6 or 7 bucks a can.

[bobodu]

Liquid nitrogen :bannana:

[Fusion1970]

Wow Paul...that sucks. I am no pro, and that looks pretty bad, but I would try the Dremel thing too before resorting to paying someone all that labor. Lowes or HD should have anything you need.

If it werent for the easy-out, i'd think that a slot ground into it and a torch would suffice. With the easy-out, I have no idea- but it could work providing you get a good slot cut into it.

Good luck
Greg

[Ingersoll444]

Ya I have been soaking it in PBlaster. I have had the best luck with that stuff. Think I will head to Lows today and see what they have.

[Ingersoll444]

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I got it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :fing32: :fing32:

Got the carbide cutter today, and played dentest for a wile. Took a bit of time, but I ground it out, then sentered the hole with the cutter, then drilled it out. As I got deeper, I hit more EZout, but I would grind some more, then drill a little etc. Still could not get the stud to back out, so I broke out the tap set, drilled the hole, and ran the tap through it. Threds seem ok, but I will do a test tourk to make sure it does not pull out.

One dumb thing though. I was finding the right tap, and wile checking a tap in a bolt hole, it slipped out of my hand. "Thunk" it was a hole open to the coolent system. DOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHH :fing20: Well I futzed a little, but could not get it out. I gave up on it today. I will break out my magnet later, and see if I can fish it out.

Thanks for ALL your help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!