New Super Bronco engines

[traceyk]

Hi Everyone,

I'm considering a new Super Bronco lawn tractor and I noticed that the 2006 model has switched from Briggs & Stratton engines to Kohler. Any thoughts on this? Good? Bad? No difference? Thanks.

[Greg]

Personal preference, but I've always like the Kohler engines. I do have some B&S Inteks that are nice, though.

[Mrwiggles2]

I always wanted a Kohler, so when I bought my first tractor a Cub 1515, I got it with a CV15 vertical shaft engine. Then after 30 hours, I needed a new intake valve and at 35 hours they replaced the entire short block. Turns out the oil passages were milled too small, starving the top of oil. Well, the rebuild worked fine, with tons of power.

I now have a Vanguard 18hp. Can't compare it to the Kohler, but I'm now a B&S guy. Kohlers are good motors, I just had a sour grape. The only thing I have noticed is that Kohlers are louder. Hydraulic lifters and a louder exhaust, there you go.

[slkpk]

Do yourself a favor and stay away from this tractor. Our church bought one last fall because someone with good intentions saw the Troybuilt name and got sucked in. These are entry level tractors. In the first 5 hours of use the mower deck skirt was bent and the blades beat up in seconds. This was on flat grounbd with a little chuck hole. The shift lever needs readjusting, the deck is a pain to remove and put back on and these are just overall really a cheap built tractor. Spend a few dollars more and get yourself a Cub and this is coming from a JD man. Or spend less money and get yourself a Murray you will be better off. Good luck, slkpk

[Coolhand]

:ditto: I had one for two days, everything on it was loose or misadusted. Back to Lowes it went. No more box store tractors for me. Mike

[bontai Joe]

The only thing that these Troy-Bilt tractors have in common with the well built tillers of old that made the Troy reputation what it is, is the red paint. All the ones I have seen looked really poor in quality and finish.

[fallon416]

I have the pony model and have had no problem with it as a mower. I do have an issue with the amount of metal that they used to make the frame. It is 1/16" sheetmetal. Because I like to tinker and can weld I have just finished making a 3/16" steel frame that just sits inside of the original frame. This way I can add attachments that aren't meant for the machine. I'm in the process of making an air operated front end loader for it.

Neil

[professor]

Hey Fallon, WELCOME! This is the best bunch on the web :wwp: What about this air operated idea you have?

Mike

[fallon416]

Hi Mike,

I have the bucket, arms, brackets, and sub frame already made. It's suppose to rain for the next couple of days otherwise I would install the sub frame and get everything attached.

The system is going to use 4 Gabriel HiJacker air shocks, 2 for lift, 1 for dump, and 1 for tilt of the bucket. The Gabriel's are rated at 1200 psi each. I still have a couple of brackets to make that attach the arms to the tractor but can't make them until the sub frame is installed.

The total lift from the ground to the bottom of the bucket will be 32". I didn't want to go any higher because of the narrow width of the tractor and the stability factor.

I have also contacted Viair about their 100% duty cycle onboard air system to power the shocks. I'm waiting to hear back from them on what the amperage draw will be on the battery.

I have already made 2 homemade valve setups that control the system. One will be mounted on the left of the tractor to lift the arms. The other will be mounted on the right side to control the bucket. I'm still looking around and contacting some of the air manifold companies to see if there is a joystick control that I can get.

Once I start putting the sub frame on the tractor I'll take pics as I go along.

Neil

[VBsnow]

Well, I just waxed my Troy-Bilt Super Bronco(21hp) and got it ready for delivery to it's new owner. I have 1.13 acres and it was not made to cut this yard. It constantly needs work. Lowes just replaced the spindle for me and when running in the heat it burns oil. I just replaced the tinker toy steering assembly. These are only a few of the misc. repairs. 2 years old and I sold it for $750. You could say this is my moost expensive mower to date. My new hustler was $3500 after tax but will be cheaper per year.

[Reep1077]

well all you briggs guys out there are not gonna like me but hear I go............I used to work on small engines every day and every time I had a piece of equipment that or guys were using come back to the shop with a briggs on it I pulled it of and threw it in the dumpster working or not. they wern't reliable. I have had to drive 200 miles just to fix a generator just because brgiggs has gone to the cheapest components they can get so they can put engines on $99 dollars at walmart. now kohler on the other hand was great. used to have to put a head gasket in them now and then but now biggie it only take about 20 min to change that on a k-181. but my personal favorite has got to be honda. I have seen these things get all the cooling fins clogged up by tar no cooling what so ever!! so bad the literaly caught on fire!!! the guys would hit them with a fire extinguisher, let them cool off and fire back up and keep going. when they come back to the shop I tore them down to clean them and never once had a bad head gasket, burnt valve or even a bad plug. now that is reliable, lets see a broken scrapiorn......I mean briggs and stratton do that

again just my $.02

[RED-85-Z51]

well all you briggs guys out there are not gonna like me but hear I go............I used to work on small engines every day and every time I had a piece of equipment that or guys were using come back to the shop with a briggs on it I pulled it of and threw it in the dumpster working or not. they wern't reliable. I have had to drive 200 miles just to fix a generator just because brgiggs has gone to the cheapest components they can get so they can put engines on $99 dollars at walmart. now kohler on the other hand was great. used to have to put a head gasket in them now and then but now biggie it only take about 20 min to change that on a k-181. but my personal favorite has got to be honda. I have seen these things get all the cooling fins clogged up by tar no cooling what so ever!! so bad the literaly caught on fire!!! the guys would hit them with a fire extinguisher, let them cool off and fire back up and keep going. when they come back to the shop I tore them down to clean them and never once had a bad head gasket, burnt valve or even a bad plug. now that is reliable, lets see a broken scrapiorn......I mean briggs and stratton do that

again just my $.02


I was given a 3.5 murray push mower that a guy used to push 3/4 acre for 12 years. Deck was shot, so I put the engine on an old Front Tine Tiller, turned the gov. up to 4,000 rpms +, and I got it mounted to the back of a GT. I till an area about 80' X 120 '. So far, 5 full tills, and it uses 0 oil, and hasnt given me any trouble. 1 pull start, and works fine, even in one of the dustiest jobs possible.

I got an old 1976 Snapper V21 push mower, orignal coil, points, starter, everything. 1 pull start, uses no oil and has alot of power.

I worked on an old Craftsman GT with a Briggs Opposed Twin, hundreds and hundreds of hours, but it worked great.

Briggs cost less than Kohlers, and with proper care CAN last as long as a Kohler.

The new Kohler Courage Line is a Joke. I worked on a Troy Built Super Bronco, had less than 20 hours on it, and it used oil, leaked oil, had some terrible valve noise, and lacked torque. This was a 19hp model.

My small engine repair teacher bought a Cub 1054 with the 19hp Courage, and the first time he checked the oil the little dip stick broke off in the hole, and it had to be torn down to retreive.

Never hear anything bad about the Briggs Vanguards, or the old 28XXXX series Flatties and OHV engines, cant say anything bad about the 17 and 19 series engines either, they serve faithfully in Industrial and Commercial applications, not to mention most of the Portable generators have them.

And lastly, the venerable 5hp Flatty that can be found on Gokarts across the country.

Kohler had the K series and the M Series, some of the toughest motors made. The Command engines were smooth and quiet, but head and lube problems plague them, and the courage is Kohlers feeble attempt to overtake a peice of the market that Briggs has owned for decades.

Honda used to make one sweet motor. The G series and the GX series including the GXV motors are great. But alas, Honda wanted a peice of the cheap motor pie, so they made the GC and GCV motors, which are OHC engines. They are residential grade. Ive got one on a Pressure Washer, and it works fine, but its loud, and the throttle sticks sometimes, otherwise for an 8 month old motor it is sound. In 1 year, who knows.

[Reep1077]

If you have good luck with a briggs then great, pearsonaly I have never seen problems with them and if was just one or 2 I could understand but after dozens I started to devlope a real hatred for them. I do agree with the old b&s 5 horse, who hasn't tore one apart and put one back together, they just worked, but the new modles I personal think have alot to desire. And yes I have problem with kohler as well but over time they have proven to be much more reliable.

Now as far as honda, most of my expierence is with the gx commercial line, they are great, but they are pricey. companies like briggs and techumse have cheapend there motors so much so they can seel to places like walmart that make it hard for honda to compete so ofcourse they had to make their own cheap motors as well as kohler thats where the courage line came from.

one more point I wanna try to make, If you are buying a hi end tractor, toro, cubcadet, john deere, simplicity, ect.... it should have a hi end motor. I don't care if its a honda a briggs or whatever. If I go out and buy a simplicity and get a courage engine I'm not gonna be happy. but if I get the cheapest thing walmart has then I expect to get the cheapest motor they can put in to it. Simple matter of economics. All companies are gonna do what they have to do to make money.

I appoligize if I offend anyone but when it comes to motors I am very biased against briggs (if you couldn't tell) but any motor can be good or bad depends on the materials how it was put together and most importantly maintance. if you don't take care of it I don't care how good it is or who it was made by its not gonna last. and I realy doub't any one is gonna argue that. :1106: i'm stepping down now.....lol

[RED-85-Z51]

I will say 1 thing for Briggs.

The engines and platform are sound for the larger single Cylinder engines. But the EPA forces them to be carbed so lean, that it makes them a pill to operate sometimes.

The newere 5.5-6.0-6.5, and 7.0 hp OHV engines, such as those used on Gokarts, Tillers, and pumps...are very reliable and durable. I personally have a 5.5 on a Gokart that Ive run for 6 months or so @ 4200 rpms. Not a bit of trouble with it.

My cousin gave me a 5hp flat head briggs he had on a Gokart for a couple years.

He ran it with a raised governor, he ran it low on oil, he never changed the oil...it locked up one time, and he had to smack the piston to free it up, he ran it for 8 months after that, and it finally gave up the ghost last week. I got it, tore it down, to find the oil dipper had broken off the rod...this was caused by engine speeds over 5500 rpms. This deprived the wrist pin and bore of oil.
The piston was melted in areas, and the rings were shot. Ill be boring it 0.010 over, new piston, rod and rings, and it will live again.

Ive rebuilt Kohlers and all them...but you cant beat a briggs for ease, and low cost on a rebuild.

8hp briggs - Piston, rod, rings costed about 75 bucks, plus a couple gaskets.
10hp Kohler M10S- Piston, Rod, Rings and some gaskets was well over 180.

The Kohler was a pill to rebuild, so heavy, and hard to maneuver.
While the Briggs was done in a few hours.

Dont get me wrong..I love Kohlers and Tecumsehs..but briggs motors are pretty heavy duty. The problem always seems to be the lack of user care and proper maintainance.

[leftyscotty]

I have a Kohler 19 horse and have not had one problem. It did cost me 400 bucks more, but that is just the way it is.

You can get a Trou Built with EITHER a Briggs or a Kohler here in the mid south.

One may like domestic, then the other guy may like imports. One guy may like Briggs too. My neighbor is a lawn fanatic and is alot like you are and strongly supports Briggs as well as others too. He has both Suzuki and Briggs in all his John Deers with little problem with either. He has more lawn mowers than the whole rest of the street. And most of them have old briggs in them and all run like clockwork. Strong engines to say the least. (STILL)

These days it is Strickly Personal preference. They all run about the same as long as you change the oil, do regular maint.