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: Chain Saw Lube


LilysDad
03-29-2011, 02:25 PM
Is rearend lube a substitute for bar oil? It looks like the same thick sticky stuff. What do you all use for lube?

farmtechdave
03-29-2011, 02:36 PM
I use winter blend bar oil year round in my saw. I'd think 80/90 would be a bit too thick even when warm to properly lube the bar and chain.

marlboro180
03-29-2011, 02:57 PM
I use the Stihl oil that comes in a green jug, veggie oil based. Or, canola oil when I run out of the Stihl stuff.

orange j d
03-29-2011, 03:02 PM
I have been using drain oil for years and have never wore out a chain or a bar. :thThumbsU

marlboro180
03-29-2011, 03:03 PM
Forgot to add that I agree with Dave, and can say from personal experience that rear end oil is not a good substitute.

hodge
03-29-2011, 03:14 PM
I have been using drain oil for years and have never wore out a chain or a bar. :thThumbsU

You should explain better. This is good advice, if you use your saw constantly, and cut a lot of wood. If you don't, and use occasionally, then it is bad advice.
Myself, I use a good quality bar oil. Bar oil is engineered to stick to the chain and bar, not sling off completely. Burnt motor oil may still lubricate, but no way can it perform as well as bar oil.

Ken in NJ
03-29-2011, 04:21 PM
I've never used anything but "Bar & Chain" oil in ANY of my saws.. If you buy it by the gallon .. its not very expensive.

Gear oil would be WAY to thick for an auto or manual oil pump saw.

HydroHarold
03-30-2011, 01:08 AM
I just figger if it sez "Bar and Chain Oil" on the container and it's made by Stihl, really how bad could it be? In my previous life I lived near a guy who ran a real sawyer's shop. He had 3 drums of bar oil for any season of the year you bring the jug. Some say you should cut bar oil in cold weather with a little kero, but my experience with Stihl oil shows that with a few minutes warm up it will still fill the chain and track with oil no problem. Used motor oil with all that acid and carbon grit in it for my sawz, NO WAY! High $ saws = decent clean new virgin bar oil.

gray wolf
03-30-2011, 06:28 AM
I have to agree at 700 bucks I,m not about to put dirty motor oil in my saw.and no cutting the bar oil.only takes a minute for oil to come up to temp.I like that poulan bar oil.really hangs on the blade.truth be knowen probably all comes out the same barrel.back to cutting wood now as a matter of fact.bought that stinking kero this year for the first time in a good while.at the price they get I,ll be cutting alot of wood,getting a little long in the tooth to be slinging around a 041 but somebody has to do it.can,t get the old lady to do everything I guess.try as i might.

jdemaris
03-30-2011, 03:48 PM
Is rearend lube a substitute for bar oil? It looks like the same thick sticky stuff. What do you all use for lube?


80W-90W gear oil is the same viscosity as 30W-40W motor oil. Just different systems for expressing thickness - depending if for a gear box or an engine.

I've been using waste motor oil for 40 years for all my bar oil with zero problems. It's just about always use 15W-40 or straight 30W motor oil, drained from my diesel cars, trucks, and tractors. I pour it once through a paint filter and store it in gallon jugs.

If I'm using a long bar, like 32" I turn the oil pump up to it's highest setting.

Now, when it comes to engine oil to put in the gas? I wish the heck companies were forced to get their two-stroke-oils API tested and rated so we could tell what we were actually getting. When some of my Homelites and Sthils were new - late 60s, early 70s - they allowed using 30W engine oil or special two-stroke-oil. Actually, even my mid-1980s manual for my Stihl 045 Super still says that.

jdemaris
03-30-2011, 03:57 PM
You should explain better. This is good advice, if you use your saw constantly, .

I can't speak for the guy you posted to, but can for myself. I've been using watse motor oil since the 1960s in all my saws. I still cut at least a full 20 cords (4' X 4' X 8') every summer of white ash, pignut-hickory, beech, hard maple, and red oak. I've never ever had a lube problem on a bar or chain. Smallest bars I have are 18" and biggest are 42" and none have roller noses. MY 1940s Homelites and my 1960s Stihls are my oldest that still get used, off and on. I suspect if this oil was going to hurt them in some way, it would of happened by now?

Yeah, I did feel a little guilty last summer pouring black waste oil into my brand new Dolmars and Efcos - but I got over it fast. The saws certainly didn't complain.

I worked as saw mechanic for a long time - as a Homlelite, Sachs, Dolmar, Hoe, and Sthil tech. I saw a lot of ruined bars over the years and I doubt any were ruined by bad oil. Usually the problem was NO oil at all, or . . . forcing the saw to cut with a dull chain.

I also took many discarded bars home that the owners swore were bad - and am still using them with no problems. Badly sharpened chains often convince owners they need new bars.

hodge
03-30-2011, 04:22 PM
I can't speak for the guy you posted to, but can for myself. I've been using watse motor oil since the 1960s in all my saws. I still cut at least a full 20 cords (4' X 4' X 8') every summer of white ash, pignut-hickory, beech, hard maple, and red oak. I've never ever had a lube problem on a bar or chain. Smallest bars I have are 18" and biggest are 42" and none have roller noses. MY 1940s Homelites and my 1960s Stihls are my oldest that still get used, off and on. I suspect if this oil was going to hurt them in some way, it would of happened by now?

Yeah, I did feel a little guilty last summer pouring black waste oil into my brand new Dolmars and Efcos - but I got over it fast. The saws certainly didn't complain.

I worked as saw mechanic for a long time - as a Homlelite, Sachs, Dolmar, Hoe, and Sthil tech. I saw a lot of ruined bars over the years and I doubt any were ruined by bad oil. Usually the problem was NO oil at all, or . . . forcing the saw to cut with a dull chain.

I also took many discarded bars home that the owners swore were bad - and am still using them with no problems. Badly sharpened chains often convince owners they need new bars.

This makes my point- you have backed a statement up with long term experience, quantifiable results (years of hard use without issue, plus the experience of working professionally on saws), and you are an obvious voice of experience. I am not trying to imply that orange jd doesn't know what he is talking about- just saying that statements like that without further information can lead someone down a wrong path. We all have a responsibility in the advice that we give out.
Mark

marlboro180
03-30-2011, 05:49 PM
We all have a responsibility in the advice that we give out.
Mark

And we all have the responsibility not to be flinging dirty old used waste oil around in the woods.

The past was the past, and hopefully, just hopefully , we can we learn something from it , and some of the new ways that are available around us.

jdemaris
03-30-2011, 06:07 PM
And we all have the responsibility not to be flinging dirty old used waste oil around in the woods.

The past was the past, and hopefully, just hopefully , we can we learn something from it , and some of the new ways that are available around us.

I guess we all have our own versions of what we think is right.

In my opinion? Worrying about the little bit of oil that gets flung off my bar in my woods? Does not even amount to a pimple on a flea's private parts.
It's in so little concentration, it breaks down fairly quickly. Some winds up in the wood I burn.

I worry a lot more about all the farms in my area using tons of petro-based fertilizers, herbicides,and insecticides every year.

Do you eat any food bought from a store? Chances are -you are supporting modern agriculture that relies almost 100% on petroleum products - that get dumped into the ground and spit into the air and trucked using diesel fuel and refrigerated using coal-generated-electricity.

Now, if I take all my waste oil to a local "proper" dumping place, it will get burned to make heat - locally. So, OK, now it will be turned into various chemicals and go into our air.

I don't fly. Note that air-travel is huge pollutant. I heat my house and barn 100% with my own firewood from my own woods. No oil or propane or natural gas being burned here. I am using a renewable resource to heat my home and barn and all my hot water. My house and barn are on 100% solar electric. We grow most of our own food and mostly organically (but we have to cheat a little).

So yeah, I cause some pollution - but I'm willing to bet I create a heck of lot less then most people.

I'd like to see some facts and figures how much pollution and waste takes place manufacturing "clean" bar oils. I suspect the record is far from perfect.

SonnyT
03-30-2011, 06:22 PM
Easy guys. Let's let some of the tension drop. :fing32:

jdemaris
03-30-2011, 06:38 PM
And we all have the responsibility not to be flinging dirty old used waste oil around in the woods.


I've never had much blind-faith" in "new" things like eco-safe bar-oil. I am open-minded, however. That being said, I just skimmed through some of my bio-fuel and lube sheets.

I don't know what bar- oil you use, but I did find that the #1 "safe" bar oil in much of the world is made from Canola Oil. Canola Oil is made from a Canadian bio-engineered type of Rapeseed.

OK. So, I checked some of my ag-books on what it takes to grow and harvest rapeseed, and manufacture Canola Oil. Also read about the intrinsic toxicity is has to some insects.

I'm not going to make a research project but . . . it is obvious tons of virgin petroleum are used to produce this so-called "safe" bar-oil.

Seems to me - once again - marketing makes something look really good when we are really "robbing Peter to pay Paul."

So, we can take old motor oil and give it a second useful life IF we choose . . . or we can take a precioius and vanishing resource (petroluem) and use it grow plants - and run a factory to produce Canola Oil to lube our bar and chain.

I don't care either way what somebody else wants to use in their saw on their property on their trees. Hopefully some will return that favor.

SonnyT
03-30-2011, 06:46 PM
My Apologies guys, guess I was getting the wrong vibes from the threads.:trink39:
SonnyT

LilysDad
03-30-2011, 09:04 PM
I can see it now. Pretty soon we'll be forced by Big Mama to do without bar lube. Don't give the government any ideas!

marlboro180
03-30-2011, 09:11 PM
I live in a watershed. I prefer not to fling wasteoil anywhere that I don't need to, and I hope I am doing the right thing.

Corn oil seems like a good thing to use, for the moment, but when there is something better that comes along, like a self lubing chain, I will be using that for a spell as well.

Blind faith, I have not. I have been cutting with corn oil in saws for years. The real problem is that if you use it straight, and then leave the bar alone, it gets sticky, and hard to run. Something Stihl figured out , and I am now happy to buy their product.

Been on jobs where we had excavators , cranes and skidsteers running on barges, on a river, the same one I live on. We had to switch all the hydro gear to run on a bio- oil. Go figure , it cost us precious thousands, and that has always kept my mind open to keeping our waterways, and food supplies , and wilderness as clean as possible, as is within reason.

I try to keep my mind open, and my position differs from yours. That's okay, I just feel that I want to do my part, in any small way possible, to extend a hand to the life, and further lives around and beyond me.

massey man
03-30-2011, 09:48 PM
ditto what marlboro 180 said...I read an article that said that oil goes thru chemical changes from being in an engine and that you shouldn't get it on you hands and if your working with it they said you should wear rubber gloves.So it sounds like it's bad stuff.My waste oil goes to the recycle guy and it goes back to the refinery.So hopefully this helps the environment.

orange j d
03-31-2011, 08:16 AM
That is it. I am selling my chain saw and will have the wife cut all the wood with a hand saw. So there will be Noooooooo oil used here. :sidelaugh

jdemaris
03-31-2011, 09:02 AM
I live in a watershed. I prefer not to fling wasteoil anywhere that I don't need to, and I hope I am doing the right thing.

Corn oil seems like a good thing to use, .

I own two properties in watersheds (Susquehanna and Hudson Rivers) and also live in an area of the USA that has one of the most pristine underground aquifers in the USA.

The last thing I want to do is pollute. If I know of a way to avoid it, I do it. With the current standard of living in the USA, it is impossible NOT to pollute, but we can attempt to do it less.

I've been in two legal battles over the past 30 years - stopping the town highway department from dumping waste-oil on my road (1970s), herbicides (1980s) and lately, dumping tons of salt on my roads- winter and summer.
All government-sanctioned types of pollution. In fact, some even paid for with TARP money.

I've also had to battle the Electric Company (National Grid) over their "legal" dumping of toxic chemicals along their power lines on my land.

I'm also part of a group attempting to stop hydrofracking in my area - for gas wells that use tons of toxic chemicals injected directly into the ground.

I'm not going to sit here and and accuse anybody of being "wrong" or "foolish" for trying to do better. I suggest you don't do the same to others, unless you've got some hard-facts.

Here are a few I believe to be true, based on real research:

Used motor oil contacting skin has never - ever - been directly linked to any disease.

Used motor oil when above ground and exposed to the sun does break-down. Dumping it IN the ground is a different story.

In rural NY, there have been several water supplies and wells closed because of pollution. From what? Septic-related bacteria, road-salt, and farm-chemicals.

Bio-oil? With the present technology, it often takes more then 1 quart of petroleum, to produce only 1 quart of bio-oil. It is a sham and a scam - but exists due to artificial price supports. That is especially true for corn-oil. NO net-yield.

Recycling of waste oil? Most in the USA gets burned, not cleaned and resold as motor oil.

When I was a kid, a favorite outdoor passtime was gathering Sassafrass roots and making home-made Root-Beer. Now? It is considered a toxin -which is a bad joke if you read closely at the minute amount of dangerous chemicals it contains.

I often buy products that come in plastic containers that carry the warning "this plastic contains chemicals known to cause cancer in California." Wow! Good thing I'm opening those packages in New York. We must be more cancer-resistant then those California people.

I've got over a 100 acres of mature hardwoods and conifers. They produce a lot of oxygen for this planet and also provide a lot of wildlife habitat. I suspect that makes up for me re-using motor oil for bar-oil.

I don't have any comprehensive answers. I did live during a time when products got "reused" instead of being "recycled." From what I've been able to keep up with, recycling creates a lot of waste of pollution.

I'll stop. Do what you think is right. Just don't tell me I'm doing worse unless you've got some real proof.

LilysDad
03-31-2011, 10:56 AM
Used motor oil when above ground and exposed to the sun does break-down. .

What does it break down into?

marlboro180
03-31-2011, 11:02 AM
I just said that there are better ways to use waste oil, and that I don't like the idea of flinging it into the woods, where it can cause detrimental effects.

Good for you, I applaud your use of solar, and of heating your place off your substantial stands of woods that help produce oxygen for you.

You say is you know of a better way to not pollute you would, I am merely pointed out a better way, and you chose to go on a diatribe about rapeseed oil being bad, about stopping the oiling of roads, etc. , yet you continue to use waste oil in your saw. Kinda an oxymoron, no?

Did I tell you you are doing worse than most people? Worse? no, but you could be doing better than you already are.

Gotta go munch on my corn oil flakes now....:fing32:

esnb74
03-31-2011, 12:01 PM
I've never used anything but "Bar & Chain" oil in ANY of my saws.. If you buy it by the gallon .. its not very expensive.

Gear oil would be WAY to thick for an auto or manual oil pump saw.

same here.

njjack
03-31-2011, 12:08 PM
Paul Bunyan and his ox had the right idea, but since we all own chainsaws these days, it's now a matter of picking your poison. I use the stihl 1 gallon orange jugs, not very expensive compared to quart sized containers.

No matter how we harvest our wood, other than handsaws, axes, cutting only standing deadwood and humping it back to our homes for splitting, can we "not have some kind" of impact.

Forget about the bar oil, for a moment. Those little engines create a lot of pollution for their size, it is what it is though. Cutting wood is hard work and needs to be done quick. Same goes for splitting

I like to think I do my part when it comes to giving back to the environment, I use geothermal heat, recycle, reuse etc..., but my footprint is actually pretty large when I look at the big picture

mark777
03-31-2011, 12:14 PM
I'm closing this thread until the moderator has a chance to review it. At which time, he may choose to edit, reopen or leave it closed.

It is far from On Topic to the OP's original intent.