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: ss/15 transmission


That_Guy
03-21-2011, 05:07 PM
Hi MTF users, this may just b a simple task but its my first time doing it so i feel i shold ask first. how would i drain the transmission fluid out of my 1971 ss/15? thank you in advance.
-That Guy

GT_80
03-21-2011, 05:13 PM
there is a drain plug in the bottom of the trans- has a square head on it. Then re-install that once it's done draining, and take the left rear wheel off, there is an elbow under the fender, pull the plug out of that, and pour 5 qts of 30w non detergent in there. It will take a while :D

That_Guy
03-21-2011, 05:38 PM
ok, thank you james, sounds fun, but now that u say what type of oil i need, i told the guy at napa i needed 20wt but he sold me some other type of transmission oil, i think i might need to return it.... :thanku:

Slow Crawler
03-21-2011, 05:41 PM
30 non detergent motor oil

That_Guy
03-21-2011, 05:52 PM
so 30 non detergent motor oil for the motor or transaxle?

crashman
03-21-2011, 09:30 PM
You need 30 wt for both, the engin takes 4- pint and the trans takes 5- qt.

Jeff Kattera
03-22-2011, 11:07 AM
ive used lucas gear oil in all my rearends and nothings gone wrong? why the motor oil in the transaxle? and ive worked my transmissions at pulling events getting firewood plowing and nothings gone wrong. and the easiest way ive found is to take the whole elbow off and get the quarts with the "funnel type tip" and just queeze the bottle to force it in the rearend. i usually get done in like 5 mins. if you try the funnel way it will take hours and thats not fun. also lift up the left side so after the 5 quarts are in it wont drip or anything so theres no mess.

Tractor-Holic
03-22-2011, 11:19 AM
I feel gears should get gear oil too,and my SS-12 already had gear oil in it from whoever else had it before me,so I just top it off with more when it needs any--it leaks a bit from the axles and gear oil oozes out a lot slower!..I see no reason to drain it and go back to oil,if any damage was to be had from using gear oil,its too late now!--and that tranny shifts better and ir quieter than my other 2 Suburbans,that have 30W motor oil in them..

Though motor oil is used even in some truck transfer cases,I doubt it protects as well as gear oil,with it having the "EP" (Extreme Pressure) charecteristics needed for spiral cut hypoid gears in car diffs..some say using thicker gear oil will cause excessive wear due to it failing to flow well enough and reach some bearings,or the drive chain in a transfer case,but you cant prove it by me--most of the trucks I had with a full time NP-203 case had gear oil put in by some cluelless "lube tech",but I never had any of them fail or show any other signs of distress from using it..

I cant see how standard trannys and some transfer cases last ,only having ATF for the lube--seems way too thin and not "slippery" enough to me,to let one last,butsomehow they do....

I'm not recomending you disobey the manual's specs for using 30W motor oil in the tranny--but I think gear oil wont hurt one ,personally..might even prolong its life...wont hurt to add some Lucas to the motor oil--I've added some STP Gear Lube Treatment to one tractor I had and it made it shift easier and whine a lot less..

Jeff Kattera
03-22-2011, 11:47 AM
yeah i was going to say that but forgot when i first got my st/12 it whined some but now doesnt at all with the gear oil. and i would think the thicker would be better cause it would climb the gears a lot more and get more to where its needed instead of slipping off. they have a thing at advance autoparts "where I work" that one side is oil and one side is lucas gear oil and the lucas covers the gears in lube and the oil doesnt do it as well very cool representation of the two different lubes.

Slow Crawler
03-22-2011, 11:54 AM
30 sae non detergent is what the service manual calls for. I do agree with Jeff, & tractor-Holic that you would think it would take gear oil. But the book says different.
Floyd

That_Guy
03-22-2011, 03:26 PM
ok, well thank you all, some guy at school was telling me i could use gear oil to, but Hugh-ss/16 told me to use the 30 wt motor oil. i guess i'll use whichever i find first at the store or does anyone know which is better? it sounds liek they both do the same job but just that some people like one better than the other. thank you
:thanku:
-That Guy

ss12
03-22-2011, 09:06 PM
this mod helps too, the fill extenstion on the left side of the hitch plate, especially if the axle seals leak. mine are all running 30wt

Plowthesidewalk
03-22-2011, 10:15 PM
From what I understand, you need to use SAE 30 in the engine and SAE 30 Non-Detergent in the transaxle. The non-detergent oil is typically used for wiping stuff down with oil, gears, and oil can type oiling. My manual for my ST16 says to use SAE 30 Non-Detergent MM or MS oil in the transaxle. Sears.com has a case of Master Mechanic brand for about $50 plus shipping.

Tractor-Holic
03-23-2011, 11:28 AM
I can get 30W non-detergent for 1.99 a qt. at "Benny's" store nearby....it says on the can "NOT for use in any vehicle made after 1932"--its a straight mineral oil,probably fine for oiling hinges and maybe our Suburban trannys--but I feel gear oil protects a lot better..it certainly wont hurt to add a qt. of gear oil or a additive like Lucas or similar gear treatments to the 30W oil ,in any case..

I've seen those counter displays that show how two gears running in a pool of regular oil VS the ones with Lucas behave,it is evident the Lucas "climbs" up the gears when regular oil sits at the bottom mostly...BTW--Lucas used to be sold under the brand name "Hi-Tach" ,I remember seeing that plastic counter display being labeled as "Hi-Tach" oil additive...

Just about ANY oil is better than whats in most of our old tractors--every one I've bought and drained out had either hardly any oil IN them (like 1-2 qts instead of 5!)--and most had oil that looked like old mayonaise it was so full of condensation,and posessed very little "lubrication"...how the gears inside look I dont know,I'm afraid to look,I wouldn't doubt there is some rusty bearings and shafts in them all...surprises me how they held up for 40 years with only that swill in them for "lube"!...

Slow Crawler
03-23-2011, 11:40 AM
I heard that, mine was milky as heck. I used Penzoil to put back in it.:thThumbsU
Floyd

GT_80
03-23-2011, 02:00 PM
they have a thing at advance autoparts "where I work" that one side is oil and one side is lucas gear oil and the lucas covers the gears in lube and the oil doesnt do it as well very cool representation of the two different lubes.

I LOVE those displays :D !
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQJlw2aLv4c4R8tz-UxuP6DdqAPbSyefvXyz29PhC5VLjQxttuK&t=1

I think TH has a point too... Maybe when these machines were brand new they could go fine with 30wt, but now that they are older, maybe the thicker oil would help them.

That_Guy
03-23-2011, 04:38 PM
ok, lol, so what type of oil should i get? i agree with James but Hugh-ss/16 keeps saying dont do it, the mannuel says this.. so i dont know what to do

John@Reliable
03-23-2011, 07:47 PM
I use Lucas in everything. My E350 diesel van has 300,000+ on it, has had lucus from day one. Friend with 18 wheeler was told rear end needed to be rebuilt due to noise(wear) he put straight Lucas it has been over 100,000 miles with out a rebuilding. My new SS12 will have everything drained and refilled with 20% Lucas and the rest spec'd lube.

That_Guy
03-23-2011, 08:16 PM
From what I understand, you need to use SAE 30 in the engine and SAE 30 Non-Detergent in the transaxle. The non-detergent oil is typically used for wiping stuff down with oil, gears, and oil can type oiling. My manual for my ST16 says to use SAE 30 Non-Detergent MM or MS oil in the transaxle. Sears.com has a case of Master Mechanic brand for about $50 plus shipping.

ok, so i could use detergent or non detergent in the engine? and non detergent in the transaxle?

Jeff Kattera
03-23-2011, 10:39 PM
for the love of all the sears tractors just use gear oil :banghead3 in 1970 non detergent oil was what was best for them now gear oil is. just go to napa get five quarts of lucas and fill her up. ive restored at least 10 sears and all got gear oil and all are still working great. and please dont try using it as a boat for now on lol :fing20:

larrybl
03-23-2011, 10:54 PM
I went through this whole senerio before with some of the same members. Filled my tranny with 90W120 gear oil, and after finding the manual stated 30W Non detergent I drained, (replaced axle seals) and refilled with 30W, I have a couple coffee cans full of 90W120 if someone wants them.
http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=128924&highlight=hulk+ii&page=5

No Leaks, No noise, no shift problems (Almost a year later)

GT_80
03-24-2011, 11:49 AM
typically non detergent was usd in systems (whether it be a motor or axle) that did not have a filter- (you do not want the particles and sludge in your motor loosening up and not being captured in a filter) and detergent oils were used to clean the internals in a system with a filter that could catch the loose particles suspended in the detergent oil.

As far as 30wt vs gear oil, i don't think gear oil would hurt anything... The rear end in that tractor was always quiet as I remember, so 30 wt will probably be fine, however if you had water in it, and possibly dirt you may want to drain it, then flush it out with a gallon of mineral spirits then fill it up again. I did that on the rear end in my orange suburban, and it took a lot of crap out when I flushed it (that one had gotten water in the trans as well)

69l46vert
03-24-2011, 11:58 AM
typically non detergent was usd in systems (whether it be a motor or axle) that did not have a filter- (you do not want the particles and sludge in your motor loosening up and not being captured in a filter) and detergent oils were used to clean the internals in a system with a filter that could catch the loose particles suspended in the detergent oil.

As far as 30wt vs gear oil, i don't think gear oil would hurt anything... The rear end in that tractor was always quiet as I remember, so 30 wt will probably be fine, however if you had water in it, and possibly dirt you may want to drain it, then flush it out with a gallon of mineral spirits then fill it up again. I did that on the rear end in my orange suburban, and it took a lot of crap out when I flushed it (that one had gotten water in the trans as well)

Good advice. I'd flush it too especially if it's gonna get worked much. Maybe run it with kerosene or diesel in it with the wheels off the ground to clean it out good.
Looks like a Katrina victim in your avatar:trink40: I'd use 30w like the manual says but 90 is probably ok.

Small Fry
03-24-2011, 01:51 PM
They made this trans right up to 04 or 05 and they still called for 30 wt. I believe some of the later models even called for 10w 30. Maybe the thin oil splashes around gets into the little needle bearings better then gear oil. I mean there must be a reason they call for it.

Did you guys ever see this Lucas test ?

http://www.hdtalking.com/oil_related_tips/7740-lucas_oil_products.html

Slow Crawler
03-24-2011, 03:47 PM
"And now you know the rest of the story" Thanks Small Fry

That_Guy
03-24-2011, 09:12 PM
ok, well i learned my lesson and i dont think i will go boating with it anytime soon lol, or ever again, wayy to much work to fix it, but it sounds like gear oil may b the way to go and i will flush out the transaxle too thank you all :thanku:
That Guy

Plowthesidewalk
03-25-2011, 10:47 AM
How difficult was it to replace the axle seals? Are you able to replace the axle seals without having to open up the transaxle?

I went through this whole senerio before with some of the same members. Filled my tranny with 90W120 gear oil, and after finding the manual stated 30W Non detergent I drained, (replaced axle seals) and refilled with 30W, I have a couple coffee cans full of 90W120 if someone wants them.
http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=128924&highlight=hulk+ii&page=5

No Leaks, No noise, no shift problems (Almost a year later)

larrybl
03-26-2011, 06:21 PM
I used a jueler screwdriver, small hammer, and needle nose to pry the old seals out from the out side. Long as you are careful not to nick the seats it was fairly easy. You will destroy the old seals using this method.
They are Item 24 in the picture, Part # 7393R

Plowthesidewalk
03-26-2011, 06:42 PM
Thanks Larrybl. May I ask where to find one of the screwdrivers you used?

larrybl
03-26-2011, 07:02 PM
You can get a whole set for less than $5.
http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-66-039-Jewelers-Precision-Screwdriver/dp/B00002X29G
Any Dollar General will have a cheep set.

Sorry Can't spell Jewelers.:lalala:

Plowthesidewalk
03-26-2011, 08:51 PM
Thanks for the information Larry. :sorry1: I didn't mean to be a smart elleck to you. I really don't want to knock a hole in my tranny with the wrong tool. For all I know what looks like a burst seal might be where water came out of a back tire. Thanks for the repair tips. :thanku:

You can look at the photos and see for yourself the right axle looks damp and is cheesed up with greasy looking dirt. The left axle just looks dirty.



You can get a whole set for less than $5.
http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-66-039-Jewelers-Precision-Screwdriver/dp/B00002X29G
Any Dollar General will have a cheep set.

Sorry Can't spell Jewelers.:lalala:

larrybl
03-26-2011, 10:07 PM
You got it that far, are the hubs easily removed? Mine slid right off. I used a scotch brite pad to clean the axle all the way to the seal. Then lightly oiles the axle to slide the new seal on, and used a piece og PVC pipe to tap it in place. This is how mine look after ???? 4-5 months of use.

That_Guy
03-26-2011, 10:14 PM
well i did it, i finally got around to draining the transaxle today and then i squirted 5 quarts of lucas gear oil into it. after about 2 hours i was done. maybe a little less, but James you werent kidding that it would take a long time. thank you all for your help :thanku:
-That Guy

Plowthesidewalk
03-26-2011, 10:16 PM
:beatdeadh Well, the back wheels were a booger to take off. I had to persuade one back wheel with a sledge hammer, and really had to wallop the other back wheel to come off.

It looks like you did a great job replacing the seals. :congrats:

Someday I plan to pressure wash the tractor in the photo and do some work on it. I have no idea if the hubs will come off easily. They look like they are on there but a puller might make short work out of them. :thanku: