Problem on K301as Kohler piston.

[draddogs]

I removed the engine that was running from a cub cadet that I am renovating and when I pulled the piston I found what seems to be melted top outer edge on the valves side. I was thinking it was pre ignition as this motor is a 1967 and the use of leaded fuel was reccomended.This is the first time it has been down and opened up. Any help with what caused this will help in the rebuild of the motor. The bore mic's out within factory stock specs and is very clean with no evidence of any hot spot or alum galling. The photos are a bit out of focus but you will get an idea of what the problem is.

Thanks to all who will help me remedy this problem. :fing32:

[Ingersoll444]

Overheating?

When a piston gets hot enough it will weld itsself to the cyl wall. The rip off when it moves. Is the Cyl groved?

[draddogs]

Not at all. It is as clean as a whistle, Paul. I was told that water in the oil and fuel would create steam hot enough to do such a thing but my belief is still towards the pre ignition thing as it was on the valve side of the piston.

[bontai Joe]

I'm thinking a "K" series Kohler has a cast iron block, so is the piston in your motor aluminum?

[draddogs]

Right on Joe. Cast iron w/alu piston.

[GreyGhost]

"I was told that water in the oil and fuel would create steam hot enough to do such a thing"

You were told right, it expands at a much faster explosive and destructive rate than dino fuel is capable of. It's also the primary reason that injector pumps fail.

[johndeereL100]

Not at all. It is as clean as a whistle, Paul. I was told that water in the oil and fuel would create steam hot enough to do such a thing but my belief is still towards the pre ignition thing as it was on the valve side of the piston.

You are probably correct about the pre-ignition. Pre-ignition can be caused by an excess carbon build up. I have seen the condition you have pictured on many engines. Sometimes the piston will be scored like your pictures and the head will be full of carbon and I have seen the head be perfectly clean. The carbon will usually build up in the valve area, so I beleive that you are on the right track.

[mrcaptainbob]

My gosh! It looks like you took pics of the 301 from my wife's Deer! The headbolts came loose and messed up the head. But that's when I found the same issue with the piston. The diff on this one is that the cylinder was rather badly scored. Of coarse, that may be from the way the previous builder hand 'knurled' the piston! Must've used a prick punch a few hundred times around that piston! But, the sides at the top parallel to the wrist pin were damaged the same way. And it looked like the crust on the cylinder ridge was really heavy in that same area. When I popped it out, I found the top ring was in three pieces. The flywheel was on EXTREMELY tight, as well! It took a serious puller to pop that off. Were any of the rings on yours broken, too?

[draddogs]

When I popped it out, I found the top ring was in three pieces. Were any of the rings on yours broken, too?

No broken rings and hardly a ridge at the top of the cyl, Even though this motor is a 1967 it looks as if it was taken care early in its life. Everything was pulled by hand tools no air tools so I could feel the motor come apart and it was very smooth other than having to grind the pto clutch that was welded to the crank from some inane mechanical behavior. It is a shame how people treat a piece of equipment after years of use.This unit was found in a field that I bush hogged. Just sat there for years before I decided that I would take better care and could restore the tractor. Now its just the time needed and I don't seem to have a lot of it at my disposal. Tyoical.....get a project and then bang no time to get it done is a shorter period of time so it will drag out and keep my brain working on how the hell I took it apart...ROF ROF

[Ingersoll444]

Tyoical.....get a project and then bang no time to get it done is a shorter period of time so it will drag out and keep my brain working on how the hell I took it apart...ROF ROF

LOL how true. Some times I worry more then I need to about that. Luckly after almost two years my 444 is going back together. I NEVER thought I would know were things went, but they are kinda falling together.

[Argee]

Tyoical.....get a project and then bang no time to get it done is a shorter period of time so it will drag out and keep my brain working on how the hell I took it apart...
Oh C'mon.......those years of training when you yanked the engine out of something and might not get back to it for a month or so have to be burned into your mind. ROF

[draddogs]

Yeah Argee, I was just putting myself in the right frame of mind. I put everything in one big box and everyone says that I should label things as I take them off so I would know where they and I just say that I do know where they go and keep filling the box. In reality this is a toy compared to the equipment we use to work on. Yes it is scaled down in some aspects but will never be as complicated as a rebuild of lets say a 240 massey or a jd450. Whats nice to work on this little tractor is that it is basic.

I will be getting back to work on it monday for a couple of hrs and should have it down to bare frame and a pile of sheet metal and iron and nuts, bolts, some electrical parts, and about 60' of wiring It did impress me that the front grill weighs all of 50 #s Hell the flywheel of the 12hp kohler weighs 30-35#s. This is going to be rewarding once it starts to get rebuilt or reconditioned and start of the installing all of the parts. Once the tractor is done it will be on to the deck which I will put up as it will be over kill for my little yard. I am more interested in the back blade and front blade than the mowing capabilities.

[draddogs]

Now back to the basics and what I am doing to the engine. All parts a have been removed to bare block wire brushed and steam cleaned. Ordered new piston, ring, wrist pin and retainers, and a new rod from Kohler in the std size. Bore, valves guides, valves, valvew springs, cam will be reused along with the crank. I will be honing the cylinder out this comming week and hope to get some pictures in the cub cadet forum.

[Boiler]

crank journal tolerance -

If the crank journal (rod journal) is originally 1.500", what are the tolerances on the journal? Mine is 1.498" to 1.4985" and I'm rebuilding it (due to a conn rod failure). I assume I can use a standard rod. Any guidance?

Thanks

[draddogs]

Boiler, for your K301 the rod bore std is 1.5005 to 1.5010
the crank pin should measure as yours @ 1.4995-1.5000.

The crank pin running clearance is .0005-.0010 w/ a max of .005
and a side clearance of .007-.016.

From your measurements I would say that you can use a std. rod.
Hope this helps.

[Boiler]

Ernie G.,

Thanks for the quick reply, and the good news! I'm glad I found this forum as I'm sure I will be using other information to freshen up my Case/Ingersoll 222.

Be well,

Vince

[Ingersoll444]

Hey! Another C/I guy!!!!! jump right on in, and ask what ever you want.

[draddogs]

Ernie G.,
Thanks for the quick reply, and the good news! I'm glad I found this forum as I'm sure I will be using other information to freshen up my Case/Ingersoll 222.
Be well,
Vince

Your welcome Boiler. I am sorry that I did not see you as a new member so
:Welcome1: and enjoy. You will find a wealth of knowledge in this forum. If any other assistance is needed just ask the question or start your own thread on your projects. :fing32: