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Old 06-11-2005, 07:20 AM   post #1 of 32
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Default Tractor painting?

We had a pretty good thred about this going on the old board, but of corse thats gone now, so how about you guys jumping in with your painting tips.

Heres what I am working with. I am redoing my old N. I have some BPS primer, topcoat and hardner. I have some spry gun stuff, but not that good at using it, and not a ton of room. I was thinking brushing on the primer, and maybe the first coat of top coat, then giving it a quick spray on the last coat to make it pretty.

Do I add the harder to the primer and top coat, or just the top coat?

Can the primer coat sit for a month or so before finle top coat?

Any other tips for me? Any help would be great.
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Old 06-11-2005, 07:59 AM   post #2 of 32
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Default Re: Tractor painting?

Paul, there are lots of areas where brushing would not show. I did the underside of my Cub (the turtledeck and rear end) with a brush (and used a can of inexpensive tractor paint too) but only use spray where you want a nice flat coating. The trick with brushing is getting the right viscosity to flow out and not leave brush marks but avoiding getting sags.

Primer tends to be rather porus unless you specify you want the stuff that you can leave lay for a while and not rust. I might add here that the changing of temperature is primarilly what causes rust indoors. In the shop where I work, we can leave uncoated steel for a time because the temp is quite constant, summer is the worst with the high humidity here.

Here is a tip for getting a nice final coat: use a light in one hand to shine on the surface you are shooting. Try to see the texture you are applying via the reflected light. That way, you see the amount and continuity of the spray pattern.

I used a hardner once on my dunebuggy and it was great. Enamel will age harden all by itself though.

We had a project I volenteered to do at work, the boys gave me a new spray gun and I hated it. I brought in my old pressure feed cheap sears gun (50 # limit) and did the job. There was way less overspray, and went on wetter, now I haven't tried the new gravity feed guns but my thinking is the equiptment is less important than how you use it.
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Old 06-11-2005, 11:44 AM   post #3 of 32
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Default Re: Tractor painting?

Paul,

I have to agree with professor (about 99%) and I was from the old school when it came to siphon style paint guns. Once I understood the transfer efficiency and timing between coats when using HVLP gravity feed guns, I never looked back at my other guns EVER. They are all boxed and probably retailed near $3K and most likely will be future yard sale items.

The industry made understanding transfer efficiency way too complicated and in laymens terms it's simple: Older style siphon/cup style guns (really, really good ones) had about 30% transfer effect....or 70% wasted paint in the form of over-spray and clean out. Newer HVLP guns are closer to 80% efficient like a SATA. $450. - and is not the gun I would recommend for the occasional user. My favorite, which is what I use when painting BPS paints is a $99. IR that I bought a Lowes. I can paint 2 1/2 times as much, with a single quart of paint with the HVLP as I can with the siphon style guns.

Valspar manufactures the BPS paint line. Doug Nash is the (my) area rep and has clued me in on what the directions on the can state, and what you can really get away with. Hardener is highly recommended in the paint and primer. Up to 50% more hardener increases the drying time, repairable in 24 hours, is chip resistant, fuel resistant, and I like this, you can pressure was the paint within 72 hours when fully cured. Is it as good as comercial automotive paints like Acrylic enamels, Urethanes and Poly urethanes....NO. But it is up to 1/10 the costs.

I occasionally see some of the tractors I painted about three years ago, and they still look very good considering they are used frequently, left outside almost always and seldom even washed.

I just want to say that I have no interests or affiliation with Valspar, just excellent results and it is very cost affective when you only need three components to make it work, Naptha (or mineral spirits when brushing), hardener and paint.

Regards, Mark
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Old 06-11-2005, 03:25 PM   post #4 of 32
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Default Re: Tractor painting?

Wow, did I come across as a smart alec know it all? I hope not. And for sure I don't know it all by any means.

As I recall from the old forum, there were many knowledgeable painters who had a wealth of information, and that's another reason I liked coming to the site.

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Old 06-11-2005, 03:55 PM   post #5 of 32
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Default Re: Tractor painting?

Here is some of Marks handiwork since he hasn't put it up yet.
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Old 06-11-2005, 04:11 PM   post #6 of 32
 
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Default Re: Tractor painting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark777
Wow, did I come across as a smart alec know it all? I hope not. And for sure I don't know it all by any means.

As I recall from the old forum, there were many knowledgeable painters who had a wealth of information, and that's another reason I liked coming to the site.

Mark
If you did you could of fooled me! And as far as I'm concerned you do great work and it shows!! Being a smart alec only gets you so far the pics prove you are not that!! Nice skill and you do it well!!
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Old 06-11-2005, 06:57 PM   post #7 of 32
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Question Re: Tractor painting?

Dont you have to use external air supply respirator when using a hardener? I wasnt going to use hardener for that reason. Please let me know, since I'm about to paint some more on the Farmall without this hardener . Awesome paint jobs btw

Thanks
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Old 06-11-2005, 07:23 PM   post #8 of 32
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Default Re: Tractor painting?

Thanks guys...and Durwood, you never cease to amaze me. I have lost all those pix from the big hard drive crash of '04.....(Oh, and wait till you see what I have in the paint booth right now).

Horseman, The isocynites are the real poisons that can't be filtered out with cartridge style masks and the polyurethanes are the primary culprit. Even prolonged exposure to skin and eyes have a systemic effect on the nervous system. So the fresh air supplied hood, Tyvec suit and gloves are the industry standard for PPE (personal pertective equipment) when painting Dupont's Imron, PPG's Durathane and a host of other polyurethane manufacturers.

If you can replicate a good painting environment by sealing an area with fresh vented external air and a good exhaust system to create a positive internal airflow, and you are not shooting polyurethanes, then a cartridge mask is more than adequate for the majority of catylized paints.

Regards, Mark
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Old 06-11-2005, 07:46 PM   post #9 of 32
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Default Re: Tractor painting?

Ok Mark, to make sure i got this straight, you are saying that the BPS paints and hardeners do NOT need a external air supply respirator. Is that what you are saying..(i'm a little slow on some things)?
And i'm waiting on a pic to see what is in the paint booth.
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Old 06-11-2005, 08:03 PM   post #10 of 32
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Default Re: Tractor painting?

Durwood, No they do not need external air supply or a positive air supplied system. A good "Survivair", "Sata", or "3M" dual cartridge full or half mask is sufficient.

Disclaimer: If you are predisposed to respiratory conditions like asthma etc. and you insist on painting yourself....then you should use a positive pressure fresh air supplied hood and suit.

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Old 06-11-2005, 10:52 PM   post #11 of 32
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Default Re: Tractor painting?

Mark - you came across very well, it's great to have people who know more about the topic than the rest of us. This is a great topic too, because painting is a black art to a lot of folks. Thanks for your input.

Mike
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Old 06-12-2005, 02:11 AM   post #12 of 32
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Default Re: Tractor painting?

Thanks professor, Proud to contribute - I'm just an old, semi-retired custom painter that still can't put the gun down. I still think we have some experts lurking in the background on this site.

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Old 06-12-2005, 05:27 AM   post #13 of 32
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Default Re: Tractor painting?

Mark you did not come across bad at all!! Thanks for your tips. I have an older Astro grav feed,non hvlp gun. I never realy got it set up right though, and have long sence misplaced the instractions that cam with it.

This $99 Lowes gun? Is that HVLP? How much air does it need for small projects? I may look into getting a new gun if I can sneak it by the CFO.
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Old 06-12-2005, 07:23 AM   post #14 of 32
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Default Re: Tractor painting?

Hey Paul,

I can't knock Astro guns as they were the first to duplicate the Binks guns near identical knock-offs. Binks patent expired (1989 ?) and quite a few Taiwan manufacturers started pumping out replicas, but Astro made the best one. So, if you can get that one to work it is a definate keeper...maybe use it for primers or small parts.

Yep, that $99. Ingersoll-Rand model 270G gun is High Volume Low Pressure (HVLP) and the can, 33 oz aluminum, is on top (gravity feed). It is also made in Taiwan, and probably by a subdivision of Astro. It requires 43 PSI inlet pressure 8.2 CFM, which is the maximum and is less than 25 PSI at the tip. I would say about two thirds of what a 3/8" air ratchet requires. I would also guess it has about 65% transfer efficency - so your using approximately 1 quart of paint that normally takes 2 1/2 quarts with a non HVLP aspirated siphon gun.

Hope this helps..
Mark
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Old 06-12-2005, 07:27 AM   post #15 of 32
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Default Re: Tractor painting?

Thats not bad at all Mark. I could easyly run that with my supply. My compressre makes 11cfm at 90 so should handle that gun. I will look into it.

As for setting up my old gun. Any online sources for tips?
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