Points or Eletronic Ignition - MyTractorForum.com - The Friendliest Tractor Forum and Best Place for Tractor Information
Register Home FAQ Garage MTF Gallery Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Store Chat Room

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-22-2012, 03:10 PM   post #1 of 28
Senior MTF Member
 
smoothracing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Whitemarsh maryland
Posts: 151
MTF Member # 50471
Default Points or Eletronic Ignition

I was just wondring how many have converted there points ignition over to eletronic,and indexing the spark plugs.I been thinking of converting my Onan over.Kirk Engines,Inc sells the point savers and coils.Might just be a cheap way to get a little more ponys out of the Onan.
smoothracing is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-22-2012, 08:15 PM   post #2 of 28
5000 Strong & Climbing
 
Richard-tx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: TX - DFW
Posts: 7,864
MTF Member # 51208
Images: 7
Default Re: Points or Eletronic Ignition

I wouldn't touch the Onan points and condenser system for all the tea in China. It is so reliable and so trouble free that nothing would be gained by putting a electronic ignition on an Onan CCKA or B series engine. I think I changed the points and condenser on my 818T when I got it over 15 years ago. I have not touched it since.

The only failure I ever had on my CCKA engines was the 6 volt coil. The epoxy that was used to encapsulate the coil is now starting to break down due to age. As a result the spark will arc from a crack in the case to ground.

If you have the old style coil and want to upgrade something, get a new style Onan coil. I think they have a higher output voltage than the old one. Don't forget to take the voltage dropping resistor out of circuit. The new coil is a 12 volt coil. I think I paid about $60 for a new Onan coil.
__________________
Code:
                              Current Inventory
   24G (Onan 24hp)    24GLX - was 16G  (Onan 24hp)   8249 - was 8129 (Onan 24hp)
        818T (Onan 18hp B48)       8163T - was 8123 (Onan CCKA) 
                              8183T (Onan B48)
   5665 w/brakes        5665        5660        Pro-8         Pro-16 w/brakes

For Gravely Manuals and more visit http://GTCOA.com
Richard-tx is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-22-2012, 09:16 PM   post #3 of 28
Senior MTF Member
 
smoothracing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Whitemarsh maryland
Posts: 151
MTF Member # 50471
Default Re: Points or Eletronic Ignition

They also make them for Kohlers too,was just pondering the idea,we put transisterized ignition on my neighbors 5600 (8hp kohler) and it made a world of difference on it.
smoothracing is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-22-2012, 10:43 PM   post #4 of 28
Senior MTF Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: IL
Posts: 11,904
MTF Member # 1229
Default Re: Points or Eletronic Ignition

"we put transisterized ignition on my neighbors 5600 (8hp kohler) and it made a world of difference on it."

?? My experience has been that there is no improvement in performance and engines equipped with points and cond. in good shape start easier, fewer rpm required to fire.

Walt Conner
Walt 2002 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-22-2012, 10:59 PM   post #5 of 28
5000 Strong & Climbing
 
CADplans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Near Roa., VA
Posts: 6,947
MTF Member # 66233
Default Re: Points or Eletronic Ignition

Anybody got part #'s/link for the Kohler conversion??

I would love to look at it!!
CADplans is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-22-2012, 11:12 PM   post #6 of 28
5000 Strong & Climbing
 
Richard-tx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: TX - DFW
Posts: 7,864
MTF Member # 51208
Images: 7
Default Re: Points or Eletronic Ignition

I agree with Walt. A properly functioning points and condenser will make no difference when converted to electronic. If the wiring is bad, the condenser old or the points corroded then an improvement will be experienced when converted to electronic.

Now if a different coil was used, then the coil change will likely show an improvement over the stock coil but the electronics had nothing to do with the improvement.

How the path to ground on the primary side of the coil is switched on and off makes no difference in spark quality. It is the coil itself that makes the difference.

Here is some food for thought. Inside the electronic ignition are usually some electrolytic capacitors. That is exactly what a condenser is. So what happens when the capacitors fail? Convert back for $30 or replace a $100 (future price) ignition module?
__________________
Code:
                              Current Inventory
   24G (Onan 24hp)    24GLX - was 16G  (Onan 24hp)   8249 - was 8129 (Onan 24hp)
        818T (Onan 18hp B48)       8163T - was 8123 (Onan CCKA) 
                              8183T (Onan B48)
   5665 w/brakes        5665        5660        Pro-8         Pro-16 w/brakes

For Gravely Manuals and more visit http://GTCOA.com
Richard-tx is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-22-2012, 11:28 PM   post #7 of 28
5000 Strong & Climbing
 
Richard-tx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: TX - DFW
Posts: 7,864
MTF Member # 51208
Images: 7
Default Re: Points or Eletronic Ignition

Quote:
Originally Posted by CADplans View Post
Anybody got part #'s/link for the Kohler conversion??

I would love to look at it!!
.

I did a Google search for "Kirk Engine" and found it.
__________________
Code:
                              Current Inventory
   24G (Onan 24hp)    24GLX - was 16G  (Onan 24hp)   8249 - was 8129 (Onan 24hp)
        818T (Onan 18hp B48)       8163T - was 8123 (Onan CCKA) 
                              8183T (Onan B48)
   5665 w/brakes        5665        5660        Pro-8         Pro-16 w/brakes

For Gravely Manuals and more visit http://GTCOA.com
Richard-tx is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-23-2012, 06:10 AM   post #8 of 28
Gravely Model L Guy
 
Gravely Model L Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Maine
Posts: 464
MTF Member # 65803
Default Re: Points or Eletronic Ignition

I converted my K301 that is on my Commercial 12 from Electronic to points ignition and I think it runs better on points
__________________
1951 Gravely Model L.
1964 L-8-currently under restoration.
1953 Model L with ring gear Ford type starter
1957 lI pull start
1957 li elec start
1961 L
1963 L-I
1970 Commercial 12
1963 L-I super convertible.
1987 Ford LGT14D
1960 bunton mower
1926 Ford Model T Tudoor sedan.
1985 Troy-Built Horse
1979 Troy-Built Horse
1950's Airens Trans a Matic
1972 MG MGB roadster
1997 ford f-450 5 spd 7.3 turbo
check out my youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/64gravely?feature=mhee

Gravely Model L Guy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-23-2012, 07:37 AM   post #9 of 28
Banned!
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Fl
Posts: 1,879
MTF Member # 36529
Default Re: Points or Eletronic Ignition

I also converted my K301 to points. Like Richard said, who wants to buy a $100 dollar coil?
gravely-power is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-23-2012, 08:24 AM   post #10 of 28
Just Have a Little Faith!
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: DeKalb Co., IL.
Posts: 9,271
MTF Member # 7161
Default Re: Points or Eletronic Ignition

If you check on Brian Miller's site, he states that the stock Kohler coil puts out more than enough voltage to burn properly.

The stock Kohler points aren't going to float at max. recommended RPM, so the only other problem that points and condenser might cause would be if the owner had a problem with setting the timing. If proper technique is used in setting it, or better yet, a timing light, then stick with points.

The answer I have gotten is that indexing the plugs gives only a slight increase in HP, which would only interest a racer. I believe you might find more improvement with trying different brands of plugs.
LilysDad is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-23-2012, 08:25 AM   post #11 of 28
Senior MTF Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: IL
Posts: 11,904
MTF Member # 1229
Default Re: Points or Eletronic Ignition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravely Model L Guy View Post
I converted my K301 that is on my Commercial 12 from Electronic to points ignition and I think it runs better on points
My eldest brother converted his Kohler K341 from points to electronic and then changed it back to points shortly afterwards.

Walt Conner
Walt 2002 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-23-2012, 11:42 AM   post #12 of 28
5000 Strong & Climbing
 
Richard-tx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: TX - DFW
Posts: 7,864
MTF Member # 51208
Images: 7
Default Re: Points or Eletronic Ignition

Ignition systems are somewhat of a mystery to some people. Once certain principles are understood, then one can more closely evaluate the claims made by manufacturers.

I remember all the gizmos and gadgets that were advertised in the JC Whitney catalog. If all the claims were true for fuel regulators, spark plugs, water injectors, coils, CDI, fuel line magnets, etc. then it would be easy to get 150 miles to the gallon from a 454 engine and get a 150% increase in horsepower too.
__________________
Code:
                              Current Inventory
   24G (Onan 24hp)    24GLX - was 16G  (Onan 24hp)   8249 - was 8129 (Onan 24hp)
        818T (Onan 18hp B48)       8163T - was 8123 (Onan CCKA) 
                              8183T (Onan B48)
   5665 w/brakes        5665        5660        Pro-8         Pro-16 w/brakes

For Gravely Manuals and more visit http://GTCOA.com
Richard-tx is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-23-2012, 11:47 AM   post #13 of 28
Gravely bug bit.
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Fla & Ohio
Posts: 8,265
MTF Member # 33720
Default Re: Points or Eletronic Ignition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard-tx View Post
Ignition systems are somewhat of a mystery to some people. Once certain principles are understood, then one can more closely evaluate the claims made by manufacturers.

I remember all the gizmos and gadgets that were advertised in the JC Whitney catalog. If all the claims were true for fuel regulators, spark plugs, water injectors, coils, CDI, fuel line magnets, etc. then it would be easy to get 150 miles to the gallon from a 454 engine and get a 150% increase in horsepower too.
I'd be happy to get 30 MPG from the 8.1L.

The place where electronic ignition would help is down here. Points fail here due to moisture.
__________________
Current L/C count = 38.
Fla Don is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-23-2012, 12:28 PM   post #14 of 28
5000 Strong & Climbing
 
CADplans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Near Roa., VA
Posts: 6,947
MTF Member # 66233
Default Re: Points or Eletronic Ignition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fla Don View Post
I'd be happy to get 30 MPG from the 8.1L.

The place where electronic ignition would help is down here. Points fail here due to moisture.
From my work on very low current flow contactors', the Kirk ignition would perform poorly in the Florida humidity.

Since the points are still used, the points appear to operate at very low current when converted to the electronic system.

At very low current the points will oxidize and fail to conduct current.

We prototyped 2 methods to resolve this problem on ship mounted (high humidity) contactors.
1) the contacts were gold plated.
2) the contacts were redesigned to "rub" at contact to break the oxide.

Method #2 was going to be real expensive to tool so we went with method #1.

Anybody know where I can get some gold plated Kohler point sets!!!???
CADplans is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-23-2012, 01:20 PM   post #15 of 28
Old Iron Connoisseur
 
Jimmy in NC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NC - Clayton/Selma
Posts: 2,761
MTF Member # 36741
Default Re: Points or Eletronic Ignition

Quote:
Originally Posted by CADplans View Post
From my work on very low current flow contactors', the Kirk ignition would perform poorly in the Florida humidity.

Since the points are still used, the points appear to operate at very low current when converted to the electronic system.

At very low current the points will oxidize and fail to conduct current.

We prototyped 2 methods to resolve this problem on ship mounted (high humidity) contactors.
1) the contacts were gold plated.
2) the contacts were redesigned to "rub" at contact to break the oxide.

Method #2 was going to be real expensive to tool so we went with method #1.

Anybody know where I can get some gold plated Kohler point sets!!!???
I'll sell you some points for $250! Then you would swear they were gold plated!

Guaranteed not to rust, bust, or gather dust until they get out of the shipping package!
__________________
WANTED:
Time to finish all my tractor projects!



My name is Jimmy and I have G.A.S.
Click for an explanation if you need it....

Gravely 816s, 8182-T (Going back to 8183-T soon!), 526, Lots of "L"
Round Fender John Deere 110




Jimmy in NC is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the MyTractorForum.com - The Friendliest Tractor Forum and Best Place for Tractor Information forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:45 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.
Compact Tractor Reviews Tractor Reviews Snowblowers Lawn Mower Forum
My Tractor Forum Snow Thrower Power Equipment Forum
Combine Forum Snowblower Forum ATV and UTV Reviews