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Ford 445A 3 Point Hitch

10K views 30 replies 7 participants last post by  Nouveau Redneck 
#1 ·
Hello,

I just picked up a Ford 445A and the 3 point hitch isn't operating. The tractor has an aux. valve installed and when you pull the lever on it, you can hear the bypass working. With this in mind, I have hydraulic pressure, but the 3 point hitch does nothing. I am a newbee with this type of setup. So, is this normal? Do I need to remove the valve and reinstall the original plate that the tractor came with from the factory in order to get the 3 point hitch to raise??

Any help would be appreciated!
 
#2 ·
The 3 point lift should work with the auxiliary remote valve installed as long as the auxiliary valve is centered. If you are sure there is pressure and the 3 point is not working there are a number of different things that could be the cause. There are several valves internal to the 3 point lift system. There is the control valve, the relief valve and the unloader valve, and if any one of those is stuck the 3 point lift will not work, but the auxiliary valve is in line in the hydraulic circuit before all of that so it would still get pressure when you move the handle. I recommend that you get a hydraulic top cover repair kit, which is just a kit containing all of the seals, o-rings and gaskets that exist inside the hydraulic top cover where those valves live, and replace all of those seals, o-rings and gaskets, as well as follow all of the procedures in the service manual to adjust all of the linkage and then put it all back together.
 
#3 ·
Nouveau ******* - Thanks soo much for the quick response to my question!

I am not familiar with the 3 point hitch operation (other than controlling it up and down), so i figured, perhaps adding this valve would redirect the flow such that i would loose the operation of the 3 point hitch. You have clarified that this is not the case, thank you.

I literally got this tractor this weekend so i do not have any manuals other than the operators. Now that i know this isn't normal, i guess i am going have to tear into it.

When i pull or push the handle on the remote valve, the hoses that go to the quick disconnects stiffen up and it sounds like the fluid is bypassing. The idle even drops, so i would figure that we do have pressure. Once i get my book, i will remove the hydraulic top and replace the o rings and gaskets as you suggested. On another thought, this tractor had a tree spade installed on it for most of its life. with this unit installed, the 3 point hitch was not used perhaps this caused a valve to stick; i mean it is 30 years old and prolly never used.

BTW - I noticed that you are from PA. I think this is a PA tractor as there is a dealer sticker on it from PA. I intend to return it to PA in a couple years when i retire there - Thats the plan, and you know what happens while we are busy planning - Life happens!

Thanks again,

Howard
 
#4 ·
I believe that the 3 point lift has two control handles on that model. The one farthest to the right is the position control handle and the other is the draft control handle. Have you only been using on of those handles or have you tried lifting both handles to their topmost position while the other one is in its lowest position, and also have you tried both handles all of the way to the top at the same time?
 
#5 ·
Nouveau *******,

Yes, i do have 2 controls position and draft. I have tried many configurations of the 2 controls, including the ones you have suggested.

An unrelated question:I have been looking for a manual and have come across a bunch of manuals. None say if they are Ford manuals or aftermarket manuals. Is there one company that is better than the other or are they all peaty much Ford reprints?

Thanks again for the help!
 
#6 ·
Are you asking about service manuals? If so, the I&T service manuals are aftermarket and are great for most things you would be doing to your tractor. There are a few things that the original Ford service manual might have better information, but you can get one of those off of ebay as a scanned PDF file for about $10.00.
 
#7 ·
Nouveau *******,

Yes, i was asking about service manuals...I have found the I&T as well as scanned copies. But, for this model, i have not seen the $10 disc. The only digital copy i found was from jensales. It is $116 minus the 20% we get being a member of this forum. I will have to wait till March 1st to purchase the manual. Not really a big deal. This is a project tractor, so there is no rush to get it done.

Thanks again!
 
#8 ·
#9 ·
Nouveau *******,

Yea, they are quite spendy for this model. The link you sent is for a 445 manual. Mine is a 445a. Mine is the next generation tractor. I am not sure how close they are, but i would hate to buy this manual and not get what i really need. The jensales digital manual that i talked about is twice the price but is the correct year and model. At any rate, i will continue to look. I do have time. I am becoming concerned at some of the comments that i am reading that a lot of ford parts are drying up. This is shocking to me given the amount of them that are still out there working. I would also think that they used the same 3 point setup in many of their models.

Thanks again
 
#10 ·
The models that the parts are drying up on are mostly the compact tractors made by Shibaura in Japan for Ford, mostly the 1xxx models and a few of the 2xxx models that were also made by Shibaura.

Your 445A should have readily available parts for most maintenance type items, as well as common rebuild parts. For major components like a transmission casing or something like that you would probably need to find one in a salvage yard.

Every part that I've needed for my '73 4000 was still available new with the exception of the PTO control cable and handle because mine has the Select-O-Speed transmission.
 
#11 ·
The 3 point system in your tractor is virtually identical to the ones in the ag chassis models of the same time frame, like the 3610, 3910 and 4610, so those parts should be readily available.
 
#12 ·
Nouveau *******,

I am glad that you told me that parts are indeed available...I was starting to second guess my purchase of this tractor worried that I was not going to be able to get the parts to fix it. It also has a shuttle trans problem that I have not even thought about yet, so I am sure I will need some parts for that too. are the 3610, 3910 and 4610 basically the same machine as the 445a, but for farm use or are they completely different machines?
 
#13 ·
I gave those 3 ag models as examples because they all had some parts in common with the 445A, but not all of them shared the same parts in common.The 3610 and 3910 usd the same same engines as the 445A, which was a 192 ci,. while the 4610 had a 201, but that was just a difference in the length of the stroke), and the rear axles of the 3910 and 4610 were the same as the 445A, but the 3610 had the lighter duty rear axle and outboard dry drum brakes that the 2610 had. the 3 point lifts were pretty much the same between all of them.

Since yours has the shuttle shift trans, the ag chassis tractors wouldn't have had one of those, but the 445A was also available with the regular 8 speed manual transmission, which the ag tractors also used.

The main difference between the 445A and the ag chassis models was the front axle. The ag chassis models all had 3 piece adjustable width front axles while the 445A had a single piece fixed width front axle that was heavier duty and was designed specifically for loader work.
 
#15 ·
First of all, apologies Sharrie for using your thread... but it's really hard finding info on these industrial tractors and I see Nouveau ******* knows a ton about them.

Nouveau *******,

Do you know if it's possible to add a 3 point hitch and PTO to an existing 445A that doesn't have it installed? If so, would one off a 3910 / 4610 work?

I'm looking at a nice looking 445A on the local craigslist. Everything about it is good except no 3 point / PTO :( Trying to figure out if this is a deal breaker.

Thanks in advance!
 
#14 ·
Nouveau *******,

That is some awesome information that you shared! It is good to know that the engine is shared. That should make parts easier to come by! I have seen the wet brake plates and actuator is available when running searches for the repair manual, although it currently doesn't have a problem with the brakes. In the next couple weeks my plan is to get the manual, tear into the 3 point hitch(weather permitting), and fix it. Once the 3 point hitch is good to go , I intend to read up on the shuttle trans and attack that. Again, this is a toy and there is no rush for me to finish, but it would be nice to know what is wrong, even if it is not fixed. Something tells me I will be splitting the tractor to fix the trans. This is something I do not want to rush. Money is not that plentiful just now, so the pan may need to be modified as we go along :)

Again, I thank you for sharing your knowledge. My knowledge of ford tractors is limited to the ones I repaired for my employer which were 555, 655, and 755 TLBs.
 
#16 ·
A Ford Industrial that has neither pto or lift would basically have to be replaced from the flywheel back. None of the internals to drive the pto are not inside, the tractor will also have a blank lift cover having none of pieces needed for the lift system.
 
#17 ·
RoyJ, joecdeere is correct. If that 445A does not have a 3 point lift or a PTO you woudl need to replace everything from the flywheel back to get them. If those are features that you need or desire, then you would be better off passing on that tractor and waiting for one to show up on craigslist that has the features that you want. Unless you know of another tractor locally with a blown engine that you could swap everything over from it wouldn't be practical.
 
#18 ·
Thanks joecdeere and Nouveau *******, saved me from a potential very expensive buyer's remorse!

I kind of figured it'll be tough when I read on tractordata the torque converter shuttle shift does not have PTO ability. I shall keep on looking (though it's not easy to come across good deals up here in Canada).
 
#19 ·
***Update***
Ok, I purchased a manual. I also purchased a gasket/o-ring kit for the tractor, as well as the quick disconnects for the aux. valve.

I pressure tested the aux valve and I get up to 2400psi and the detent operates. If I manually override the detent the system relief kicks in at 2500psi. I am using an older flow meter but it says that I am a little over 3 gpm just off idle. This may be a little low, but then again the flow meter is over 30 years old and might be slightly out of calibration. Regardless, that is obviously enough flow to operate the lift arms.

Once I established that the aux. valve has pretty much the correct pressure and flow I can safely deduce the system is ok, up until the point that I use the controls to lift or lower the arms. With this in mind, I removed the aux. valve and replaced it with the stock cover plate. This gave me a port that is directly connected to the lift cylinder to see what is going on. I installed a gauge in this port and operated the lift arms...Nothing...0 psi. With no pressure, I decided to crack the fitting on the cover plate loose to see if I had flow but no pressure...nothing. So, I actually started the tractor with nothing attached to the fitting on the cover plate, and operated the lift and draft controls...still nothing, not even a drop of oil. Armed with this information, I can only assume the valving that directs the oil to the lift arms is somehow defective. I did try one last test. After shutting the tractor off, I used compressed air in the port on the stock cover plate....wala, the arms lifted. They seemed to lift very smoothly. I let the air bleed out, and the also lowered smoothly. With these results in mind, it seems that the cylinder portion of the lift is functioning perfectly.

As stated previously, I did purchase the gasket kit. So, as soon as I get the time when it is not supposed to rain, I will pull the cover.

Has anyone ever seen anything like this, and know what the problem was? (pin fell out, spool stuck, etc.)

This is my first shot with 3 point hitch repair, so any suggestions or comments are welcomed.
 

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#21 ·
Definitely sounds like you have enough pressure and flow to do something to the lift arms. The test port on the stock plate will not read pressure unless the lift arms are doing work, otherwise you have flow with no restriction and therefore no pressure. Pressure is caused by a restriction to the flow, like when the arms are trying to lift something heavy. But getting no flow at all out of the test port when the port has no plug or gauge in it sounds like something is bypassing that part of the circuit altogether. I'm not intimately familiar with the later systems that have the two lift handles, but my guess would be some valve inside the top cover is stuck open and allowing the flow from the pump to dump back into the sump without ever getting to the rest of the 3 point lift system.
 
#22 ·
Nouveau *******,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I was, and still am hoping someone in this forum had the exact same problem and could say...is what i found. In the end, i am going to have to pull the cover. I will definitely post when i have.

Thanks again!
 
#23 ·
I had a similar problem about 10 years ago on a 4000 or 4600, can't remember which. After taking every thing apart more times than I care to remember, the problem was the the O ring on the little tube that extends up into the lift cover. Sorry don't have a manual handy so don't have numbers or correct names. Like you, I had pressure to remotes, but none to arms.
You have to remove the entire lift cover to get to the tube.

Hope this helps.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
#24 ·
rstonebowtie,

Thanks for the post!

I did remove the cover briefly (was sunny when I started then by the time I had it off it was raining so I put it back on real quick). I have not gotten back to it as of yet. Anyhow, I did remove that feed tube that you referred to. I have attached a pic of it. The seals do not look bad to me, but I will change them before I reinstall the tube. Hopefully I will find the problem without having to remove the cover several times. That is why I am not going to remove it until a good day to go through the whole thing.
 

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#25 ·
Hello All,

Well, i still have not gotten a chance to work on the 445A. However, i want to get after it this spring.

Question. The tube in the last post, that goes into the cover. Is this tube the oil feed from the oil pump to the 3 point hitch. If so, when i get it off again, i will blow air into it to see what is going on.

Thanks in advance!!
 
#28 ·
1horse,

Thanks for the reply. I do know about the parts guide online for fords. My tube is #44...Called just a tube. What i want to know, is, is this a feed tube or a return tube. I am going to pull the cover and would love to know that if i pressurize with air, i am pushing air through the feed vs. the return.

Thanks again!
 
#29 · (Edited)
As you wait for ones with experience to chime in--all I can add is that in other ford tractor applications that part number (C5NNB853H) is a pressure tube.

Example: C5NNB853H 1 Tube, Pressure, Lower, L/Independent PTO, 3550, 4000, Replaces C5NNB855A, (Not Shown), Start Year: 01/01/1965

https://www.partspring.com/catalog/product/view/id/1075/s/c5nnb853h/category/86/

Again, the real question to be answered by someone is the question in post #25.
 
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