well now that my engine is in nice shape- thought I would start on the loader- making very similar to Johnson 14- thanks to LPBOLENS and STEEVO for the good pics helped me get going. figured I would do more documentation on this one in case someone else needs info- started with the frame brackets- I went 16" long along the frame to pick up the 2 sterring bridge bolts and also the e
I made the angles running out to the uprights so the upright tube is about 3/4" clearance for each pedal-I just traced the outline of the 4" 2" upright
had to notch the right hand side for the drag ling clearance-the sharpie tracing is where I will be cutting the plate off
I decided to bolt the diagonal pipe to the upright because I will end up doing that on the other side because of the power steering hoses-not sure if I need to sneak them in between or to the outside-so I cut my black pipe which I flattened each end and put it on like this
this way I won`t need to bring the muffler up to vertical- the pump side is the one the I need to do more fabbin to get the correct bends to mount pump bracket
Angles have a tendency to twist under offset loads, and notches in structural members tend to reduce strength.
Subframes have 3 purposes.
1. Support the delivery of axle torque to the bucket cutting edge.
2. Support the loader posts.
3. Support the rear of the tractor with all of the ballast as counterweight to payload in the bucket.
A high end hydro coupled to a single speed final drive can deliver as much as 600-700 ft-lb of axle torque with proper ballasting. Coupled to a 2-speed final drive, the available torque rises to over 1300 ft-lb with a Sundstrand hydro.
The rear of a well ballasted heavy GT weighs over 1300 lb, and with a heavy lifting force with high available hydraulic pressure, can end up off the ground.
the last couple I built -one on a 1250 and the other on a 1886- I made a subframe running all the way across using heavy square tube- then used a 1/4" plate all the way across-uprights were mounted to 4" channel iron. on this one I kind of went by the Johnson model 14 diagram. only added some extra gussetts and angle should be beefier than the original. I still need to install longer gussetts at the uprights when I get that far
the last couple I built -one on a 1250 and the other on a 1886- I made a subframe running all the way across using heavy square tube- then used a 1/4" plate all the way across-uprights were mounted to 4" channel iron. on this one I kind of went by the Johnson model 14 diagram. only added some extra gussetts and angle should be beefier than the original. I still need to install longer gussetts at the uprights when I get that far
Older Kwik-way loaders had short sub-frames, newer had longer ones going to rear axles. The old ones were too springy. If they had to change, that means the early ones (like I have) weren't good enough. OEM's have to keep an eye on cost, sometimes design is compromised. So this is good; with your previous loader experience, you/we'll see if 2x2 angle is just enough.:tango_face_wink:
To bad this wasn't under acessories as its not particularly tractor specific.
good points also from you guys- yes- I sit their kind of debating with myself on the strength of this design-even with those front brackets only bolted thru one 3/8" bolster bolt their and then a bolt thru the battery fuel tank frame- this is what I did on the last large frame-2 x 2 x 1/4" square tube across frame- then the front is a 1/4" thick plate to tie the "box" together- sorry -I sat here last night took literaly over an hour to post a few pics- I don`t know what the H--L is up with tinypic slower than molasses- their must be a better way to get pictures on here-VERY FRUSTATING as I like pictures also
I found out on this one I built for my iseki- so I went off the frame and boxed it in-then added heavy angle- thanks to Brad mtf sie admin. for posting another way to post pictures- I like it
making progress-this the completed mounting brackets-I had the re-do the pump side as I had the pipe at too extreme of angle-and it looked like I was going to have interference with the lift cylinder-it` close-clinders will be here this week-I was thinking using the frame mount ears and running back to the uprights-also- testing for leaks- my uprights only hold about 3 1/2 quarts? they are 2 x 4 x 24-thought I saw on here somewhere it takes like 5 quarts
You also need to consider heat expansion of the fluid (at least 10% of available volume), and the fluid displaced by the cylinder rods when retracted (1 cu-in per inch of stroke) comes off of the remainder after the heat expansion. What is left in your reserve will diminish drop by drop over a period of time. The cylinders themselves will hold about a quart or more, depending on their sizes.
Your 3.5 quarts will work. I prefer at least 5-6 quarts of usable volume to allow some time for heat dissipation to the reservoir walls while the fluid is in there. The rule of thumb is the reservoir capacity should be at least 1/4 of the max flow rate of the pump. There is wiggle room, but you don't want to cut it so close as to starve the pump or overheat the fluid.
thank-you Tudor- always good advice- well the first Johnson 14 I had put on the 1250 used the one upright- I cannot remember the stroke of the cylinders -but I know they were 1.5" bore- with one inch rods- it worked good- I did not measure the volume- but I am sure my uprights are the same as the stock ones- I went with 1.5" x 18" stroke on this one for the lift and 1.5" x 10" stroke on the tilt- I bought the same pump you recommended as last build- .39 cubic in. I think 5-6 gal. minute- I think you are right I am cutting it close easy enough to connect the uprights now-I built the other one I had put on the 1886 and used 2" bore and 1.250" rods and I think 20" stroke- same pump- 4" pulleys worked good I did connect the uprights on that one
The pump is too large for the 1.5" cylinders for 1:1 drive. The 1.5" cylinders only have 56% of the volume for the same stroke as 2" cylinders. Use a 4" pulley on the engine and a 7" pulley on the 0.39 cu-in pump.
With the pump being under driven by that amount, 3.5 quarts in the reservoir is in the right ball park.
The combined total volume of the cylinder rods is a twitch under one quart.
IF I REMEMBER I think that first Johnson 14 had 24" stroke cylinders on the lift- they were mounted really low on the uprights-I was trying again to match up close to those but it looked like I had to go at least 2" bore and the center to center was pretty long- I put larger cylinders for the lift on the iseki- which runs off the tractor hydraulics- their is a manifold to tap into- and it`s pretty slow-not too bad but I wouldn't want it any slower-the tilts are 1.5" bore and work better-thanks for the tip on the pulley size- easy enough to switch
well after a little trial and error- making progress- the power steering assy did not allow me to keep the brace as close to the frame as last one-so I refabed the brace- if I was going to do it again I would shiftright hand upright frame over 2 inches-really close to the pump
ready to weld everything up- add a few gussets then some sanding blasting and prime and paint- soo- what you see on the bench along with all the sae to pipe swivel fittings is right at 900.00- figure another 150.00 or so for the lines and hoses- if you buy all new stuff you can figure about 1300.00. you could save on the cylinders and maybe a little on the control valve- but if I do another one- I would spend a little more on a pump with a splined shaft
I don't think that $150 is going to cover the dozen hydraulic hoses needed for the loader cylinders, plus the 2 hoses for the valve set and the suction line for the pump. If you also intend to use hard lines on the loader arms, it will take another $100 or so if you have the equipment to make them up yourself. If you have to buy that equipment, that's another $100 or more. Shop time to have the pros make up the hard lines is scary expensive. It cost me C$150 (US$110) to have the shop make a replacement for one of the 4 hard lines on my SCUT loader, and it's very close to the same size as what you are building.
actually it`s pretty close- I just buy non-coated 1/4" brake line- 4- 5 foot lengths- cut the flares off and bend- then I pick-up 1/4" brass female pipe caps- drill a hole in the center and braze them on -I get the hose also from surplus center for about 8.00 each- I will get a picture up here later on how I plumbed the last one- I am fortunate I have access to a pipe threader- so I make up my short lengths running across the boom and the 2 that run up fron the tily cylinders- I do remember you saying that plumbing was the single most expensive cost of a loader- you are correct on that.hehe!
Quarter inch brake line is too small. You need 3/8" for the flow. Quarter inch hose has a cross sectional are of 0.049 sq-in and will flow up to 6 gpm. Quarter inch tubing has a cross sectional area of 0.025 sq-in, half the area of a hose, or 1/2 the potential flow rate.
Brass is not the best option for hydraulic fittings. It has a considerably lower pressure rating than steel which is rated for 3000 psi or more. With the normal bouncing of a payload while driving over rough ground, failure of the makeshift brass fittings is pretty much guaranteed, never mind the type of pressure spike that running the bucket into an immovable object at speed can produce.
GEE TudoR now you got me thinking -I never considered the i.d. area between the hoses and lines- my first Johnson 14 on that 1250 did have 1/4" steel lines-so that is what I put on the last 2 copies-this one on my iseki has had some pretty hard use -but not abuse-I actually found silver solder worked good to attach these- I could easily sub steel caps and 3/8" brake line to be sure-maybe that is one reason my lift cylinder are a little slow? I am glad you mentioned this as you always have good info. it`s not going to cost hardly any more
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