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post #1 of 42 Old 05-17-2017, 10:09 AM Thread Starter
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X7 Tiller performance

Hey all, I have some questions regarding the performance you are seeing with tillers on both gas and diesel X7's. I have never seen on in action locally.

How much will the tillers throw the tractor around in compacted or sod laden ground? My current X530 gets pushed around readily if the tiller contacts some especially hard ground or a root it can't cut. I would imagine the extra weight of the 7's would counteract this to some extent.

How much does a 647 (or similar aftermarket) tiller load down an x7? More interested in the responses from gas variant owners here, do you have to crawl through material or can you move through it at a good clip?

I would presume the three point hung tillers would do a better job of staying engaged because the three point forces the tiller into the ground vs the lift setting the tiller down and letting the weight of the tiller do the work. Is that correct?

Thanks for your time!
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post #2 of 42 Old 05-17-2017, 10:32 AM
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Re: X7 Tiller performance

x7 tractors usually have good control over tillers 48" and smaller (they aren't big enough to support anything larger than that); there's a few factors that play in for 2wd tractors, but 4wd/awd tractors have zero issues.

Gas burner versions generally don't lack power, they just go from thirsty to extremely thirsty when they're being worked hard. You can usually move at a decent clip if you want to (gas or diesel).

There's not any down force available for the 3pt on these tractors, so you're relying on the weight of the tiller and digging ability of the tines; there's times you'll be able to go to full depth on the first pass and other times it may take you 4 times (or more) over the same area before you can get that deep depending on soil conditions.

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post #3 of 42 Old 05-17-2017, 03:16 PM
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Re: X7 Tiller performance

Since my 60" King Kutter tiller doesn't even make my 2520 engine break a sweat, even when cutting through old sod (black dirt base) I'd think a x7-series could handle a 47" one just fine. The engines in my 2520 and x758 are very comparable in power output. I know these are diesels and you were more interested in gas engines but figured I'd toss this out there.

As noted above, a typical 3-pt hitch does not apply downforce. The weight of the tiller is all you get.

Rob

2016 x758 w/60" HC mower, 54" snowblower, MC519 bagger
2010 2520 w/61" H130 loader, TA 42" forks, KK 60" Pro tiller, iMatch quick hitch, KK middle buster
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post #4 of 42 Old 05-17-2017, 04:14 PM Thread Starter
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Re: X7 Tiller performance

I'm interested to hear what diesel owners have to say, I just assumed that a diesel would run the tiller just fine...

The gasser in my 530 sometimes struggles with the 30 inch mechanical tiller, such as working through wet heavy material, you can hear the motor chug a bit. Got me thinking since the motors in the 530 and say a 738 are similar in size. I know it isn't a direct comparison for a number of reasons so that's why I was asking.

Just so im clear with what you guys are saying, the three point will set something down but will not hold it down? My experience with three points is with large equipment like haybine's where there is so much weight on the tongue that it would never lift up unless you actually used the hydraulics to lift it. By that then if the tiller hit something hard, such a large rock the three point would allow it to lift up and over (while also wreaking havoc on the tines,etc) instead of simply staying put and forcing the rear end of the tractor off the ground?
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post #5 of 42 Old 05-17-2017, 04:32 PM
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Re: X7 Tiller performance

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Originally Posted by quackaddict View Post
Just so im clear with what you guys are saying, the three point will set something down but will not hold it down? My experience with three points is with large equipment like haybine's where there is so much weight on the tongue that it would never lift up unless you actually used the hydraulics to lift it. By that then if the tiller hit something hard, such a large rock the three point would allow it to lift up and over (while also wreaking havoc on the tines,etc) instead of simply staying put and forcing the rear end of the tractor off the ground?
Correct. Unless specially equipped a 3-pt hitch (at least on CUTs) does not apply downforce. It can lift but it cannot push down. It's like a mid-mount mower deck or a front snow plow on a pickup truck.

Rob

2016 x758 w/60" HC mower, 54" snowblower, MC519 bagger
2010 2520 w/61" H130 loader, TA 42" forks, KK 60" Pro tiller, iMatch quick hitch, KK middle buster
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post #6 of 42 Old 05-17-2017, 04:36 PM Thread Starter
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Re: X7 Tiller performance

Thank you for the clarification, like I said all of my experience is with larger tractors (150+hp) and I wrongly assumed these acted in the same way. I can see the benefit in allowing it to lift in this case.
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post #7 of 42 Old 05-17-2017, 04:44 PM
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Re: X7 Tiller performance

Do larger field tractors apply downforce? I have no experience with them.

Rob

2016 x758 w/60" HC mower, 54" snowblower, MC519 bagger
2010 2520 w/61" H130 loader, TA 42" forks, KK 60" Pro tiller, iMatch quick hitch, KK middle buster
1996 345 - Traded
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post #8 of 42 Old 05-17-2017, 04:47 PM
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Re: X7 Tiller performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by quackaddict View Post
Hey all, I have some questions regarding the performance you are seeing with tillers on both gas and diesel X7's. I have never seen on in action locally.

How much will the tillers throw the tractor around in compacted or sod laden ground? My current X530 gets pushed around readily if the tiller contacts some especially hard ground or a root it can't cut. I would imagine the extra weight of the 7's would counteract this to some extent.

How much does a 647 (or similar aftermarket) tiller load down an x7? More interested in the responses from gas variant owners here, do you have to crawl through material or can you move through it at a good clip?

I would presume the three point hung tillers would do a better job of staying engaged because the three point forces the tiller into the ground vs the lift setting the tiller down and letting the weight of the tiller do the work. Is that correct?

Thanks for your time!
A tiller isn't really designed to break unbroken ground, although you can do it that way. You should either plow or rip the ground first, then use the tiller to "grind it up". You get better results with less work, and it's easier on the drivetrain. The weight of the tiller is what engages it, not downforce from the lift, which the X7's don't have, like DieselPowered mentioned. My X748 handles a 50" rototiller just fine. I have a reverse rotation unit, it turns opposite of the direction you pull it, and does a fantastic job preparing a garden for planting. You can see how the X7 handles it, the tiller weighs around 330 pounds. You can also hear that the engine doesn't lug down much at all, even with the tiller buried in the freshly plowed and somewhat wet dirt. I will say that 4WD is a big help here; I don't have loaded tires, and with the tiller in deep, I spin quite a bit and have to use the traction lock all the time in 2WD, but hardly ever in 4WD.

I sometimes rent out my tractor (with me driving, of course) to till gardens for people in Spring. Lots of times I'll get there, there won't be a garden. The customer wants me to make one for them. Tilling a grassy area wasn't terribly bad, but it took several passes to get the ground cut deep enough to plant, and to shred the turf enough to allow it to be easily raked clean. Bare ground was a real pain, usually it was like tilling a paved road . I quickly learned to take my plow whenever I went to till a garden; if it was "virgin" soil, I'd plow first, then till. Usually it only took one pass with the tiller to make a good seed bed.

I made this video about 3 years ago:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMtPQzJPikA&t=4s

Quote:
Originally Posted by quackaddict View Post
I'm interested to hear what diesel owners have to say, I just assumed that a diesel would run the tiller just fine...

The gasser in my 530 sometimes struggles with the 30 inch mechanical tiller, such as working through wet heavy material, you can hear the motor chug a bit. Got me thinking since the motors in the 530 and say a 738 are similar in size. I know it isn't a direct comparison for a number of reasons so that's why I was asking.

Just so im clear with what you guys are saying, the three point will set something down but will not hold it down? My experience with three points is with large equipment like haybine's where there is so much weight on the tongue that it would never lift up unless you actually used the hydraulics to lift it. By that then if the tiller hit something hard, such a large rock the three point would allow it to lift up and over (while also wreaking havoc on the tines,etc) instead of simply staying put and forcing the rear end of the tractor off the ground?
Having the tiller free floating allows it to bounce when it hits a root or buried rock. Ground speed and the tiller's rotation is what allows it to cut, the skids determine how deep per pass. A belt driven tiller will cause more variation in engine speed, since the power is coming directly from the crankshaft and not through the hydrostatic transmission, like the larger machines will have. To protect the driveline from hard shocks, a shear pin or slip clutch should be used. I have a slip clutch on the driveshaft of my tiller.

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Last edited by KHodges; 05-17-2017 at 04:54 PM.
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post #9 of 42 Old 05-17-2017, 04:50 PM
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Re: X7 Tiller performance

Look for a 42" hydro tiller they can run forward or backwards, they are a bit more $$ but they won't shoot you forward in the garden area.
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post #10 of 42 Old 05-17-2017, 04:52 PM Thread Starter
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Re: X7 Tiller performance

Yes, for example we have an 8960 that we run a 3point subsoiler on, it consists of 8, 3ft deep shanks. The tractor hardly runs that tool, and if it were allowed to just run on weight it would not ever get into the ground near far enough to do what it does.

Most of the stuff I run are drawbar type implements, I can't tell you the last time I hooked up a three point tool.....
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post #11 of 42 Old 05-17-2017, 05:05 PM Thread Starter
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Re: X7 Tiller performance

K Hodges,

I appreciate the post, and the insight. Your exactly spot on. I till gardens for some spare money and can echo your sentiment. Having something that could break the soil before tilling would make things 100x easier on me and the tractor. One of the reasons I would like a 3 point is to have that ability. I would think a couple passes with a tool like what Royrector has (his three tine ripper) would be enough to loosen it and make life easier on your equipment.

From what I have gathered a slip clutch is a must. I plan on installing one on anything that I purchase (if it does not come with one).

Local deere dealer sells frontier, john deer, and landpride tillers, so I have some options.

The cold weather starting makes me lean gas, but I can see things like this make me lean diesel.....
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post #12 of 42 Old 05-17-2017, 05:22 PM
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Re: X7 Tiller performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by quackaddict View Post
K Hodges,

I appreciate the post, and the insight. Your exactly spot on. I till gardens for some spare money and can echo your sentiment. Having something that could break the soil before tilling would make things 100x easier on me and the tractor. One of the reasons I would like a 3 point is to have that ability. I would think a couple passes with a tool like what Royrector has (his three tine ripper) would be enough to loosen it and make life easier on your equipment.

From what I have gathered a slip clutch is a must. I plan on installing one on anything that I purchase (if it does not come with one).

Local deere dealer sells frontier, john deer, and landpride tillers, so I have some options.

The cold weather starting makes me lean gas, but I can see things like this make me lean diesel.....
A ripper would work well, a bottom plow would also work well for breaking ground before tilling. These diesels have no issues starting in cold weather from what I've heard they will start good even at -10*F and if you are any colder than that they have block heaters available. My 1991 John Deere 332 garden tractor with its 3 cylinder Yanmar diesel with over 3,000 hours starts better than all of our gassers in the cold.

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1991 John Deere 332 Redland hill 3pt hitch, Carlisle Tru Power AG tires, and V61s, 30 Hydraulic Tiller, Restored


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post #13 of 42 Old 05-17-2017, 06:22 PM
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Re: X7 Tiller performance

50" would be fine; I was thinking in terms of Deere tillers with the 655 being the next step up and that's asking an awful lot.

Just for reference, I believe the 4R series (~45+ hp) is the smallest rig available with down force on the 3pt (and that's only if you order that option).

As far as engine lugging, you can hear a slight change in tune when the tiller is down to full depth with the depth stop skid shoes removed and the soil is heavy/damp, but I can't ever remember a time where I had to back off because of the engine lugging to the point it needed to recover before continuing.

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If you want to be able to wuf wuf wuf it, buy the diesel.
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post #14 of 42 Old 05-17-2017, 10:19 PM
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Re: X7 Tiller performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by quackaddict View Post
Hey all, I have some questions regarding the performance you are seeing with tillers on both gas and diesel X7's. I have never seen on in action locally.

How much will the tillers throw the tractor around in compacted or sod laden ground? My current X530 gets pushed around readily if the tiller contacts some especially hard ground or a root it can't cut. I would imagine the extra weight of the 7's would counteract this to some extent.

How much does a 647 (or similar aftermarket) tiller load down an x7? More interested in the responses from gas variant owners here, do you have to crawl through material or can you move through it at a good clip?

I would presume the three point hung tillers would do a better job of staying engaged because the three point forces the tiller into the ground vs the lift setting the tiller down and letting the weight of the tiller do the work. Is that correct?

Thanks for your time!
For Breaking New Un-tilled soil The JD 42inch Hydraulic driven is Your Best bet. It will Break New ground In the first Pass. I have been using One for the Last 13 Years about 4 years ago I tilled My neighbors whole 1 acre Yard So I could re level it to drain the water away from his House as He was On the down-slope from My Yard. The Only downside to the 42inch Hydraulic tiller is. It runs off Your Mid PTO so You have to always Take off You deck & Borrow The decks quick coupler. . It is 3 point Mounted and it Not really quick Hitch compatible. I have since added a 1025R to My heard of tractors with a 647 But My reason is I want to mow down the Garden vegetation and till in one Pass. My new Place has Not seen a Plow In 131 Years It was a Horse Pasteur Until the early 1980's Until the Put In a acreage sub division I live In now. So the 42inch Hydraulic tiller will be Used for the first Till of My 1.7 acre Garden My Last Place I used it to Till 10 acres twice a Year My 3acres twice a Year them Multiple Gardens for neighbors twice a Year. So if Your Looking for a 1 pass tiller to break new Ground I would suggest going with the 42inch Hydraulic tiller

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post #15 of 42 Old 05-18-2017, 12:05 AM
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Re: X7 Tiller performance

Hey bud,

Here's a clip with an older 445 gas 2WD doing just fine, not knocking 4WD or diesel, but this combo (445 with 42" hydro) will make just about all land powder in no time. I was going slower than necessary although I don't see the point in going real fast. I love this thing, the hydros are awesome, but can be a bit pricey, however, you wouldn't need the rear PTO because they attach to the mower PTO. The one thing I do dislike about the hydro is the need to mount the pump underneath the tractor, it's about a 10 minute job, whereas a 48 or 50" mech tiller will just slide onto the rear PTO stub. I have 5 suitcase weights on the front, not sure I need that many, but it fits that, so I used them. Also I have tilled before without weights on the front, but I'd recommend the weight, you under-steer like crazy w/o the weight.


Hope this helps.

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