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post #1 of 22 Old 03-15-2017, 11:36 AM Thread Starter
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Tire Chains and Driveway damage

Well, I sealed my driveway last summer and scratched it all up with yesterday's 4-6" of heavy sleet and my chains and plow. I still have tires slipping, with 45# wheel weights, 60lb bag of sand strapped to the back hitch plate, 60# bag of asphalt patch on the middle fender deck.

Any alternatives? Ag or HDAP? Rubber Chains?




Picture from last winter:

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Last edited by Merc1973; 03-15-2017 at 11:47 AM.
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post #2 of 22 Old 03-15-2017, 11:49 AM
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Re: Tire Chains and Driveway damage

That's a pretty small/light tractor and, overall, not much ballast. On my 345 I had filled tires, wheel weights, and four 42# suitcase weights on the back. That worked well but more weight would have been OK too. Check to see if your tractor can take suitcase weights or if there is away to add a weight bracket for them on back. Fill the rear tires with fluid.

As for driveway 'damage', it really isn't. Yes, you scratched your seal coating a bit. It's cosmetic. I blew my driveway for 20 years, sealing every other, with chains on my 345 and the driveway was still in great condition when I sold the place. No actual gouges into the asphalt, only visible scratches. Don't sweat it unless you're anal about that type of thing. If you are, then just plan on sealing first thing in the spring. That's better anyway, so your driveway isn't so slippery come winter.

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post #3 of 22 Old 03-15-2017, 11:50 AM
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Talking Re: Tire Chains and Driveway damage

Hi! I wish I had a big enough piece property to own a piece of equipment such as you have but just not practical. Never having had a set up like yours or used one it's hard to say but I think the key words here are 4" to 6" of heavy sleet. I would assume that is not anything like pushing snow just from comparing the difference in shoveling 4" of powder versus 4" of heavy wet snow. Your equipment may be pushing the limit of what it can do without slipping the tires. Just a guess however. You can only load so much weight on a piece of equipment in a practical manor and after that it's just being overworked. I have plowed with a full sized Ford F-250 before and there were times that unless you got a good run you could stop the truck in a very heavy wet snow. Hopefully you will get some practical input from some of the guys who own these as far as amount and distribution of weight, tire type, chain type, and frequency of plowing. Good luck!! Bill

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post #4 of 22 Old 03-15-2017, 12:02 PM
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Re: Tire Chains and Driveway damage

The amount of power you are applying, in this case how far you push down on the forward pedal, needs regulated. Not saying the OP is not doing this but I have seen a lot of people who just smash the pedal to the floor and let it sit there and spin the tires. You can get a feel for how much power/pedal is applied without spinning the tires. If you watch very experienced equipment operators they rarely ever have the tires or tracks spin.
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post #5 of 22 Old 03-15-2017, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Tire Chains and Driveway damage

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Originally Posted by BigBlue View Post
That's a pretty small/light tractor and, overall, not much ballast. On my 345 I had filled tires, wheel weights, and four 42# suitcase weights on the back. That worked well but more weight would have been OK too. Check to see if your tractor can take suitcase weights or if there is away to add a weight bracket for them on back. Fill the rear tires with fluid.

As for driveway 'damage', it really isn't. Yes, you scratched your seal coating a bit. It's cosmetic. I blew my driveway for 20 years, sealing every other, with chains on my 345 and the driveway was still in great condition when I sold the place. No actual gouges into the asphalt, only visible scratches. Don't sweat it unless you're anal about that type of thing. If you are, then just plan on sealing first thing in the spring. That's better anyway, so your driveway isn't so slippery come winter.

Rob

Alright, thanks. I will see about making a bracket for some suitcase weights. With more rear weights and filling the tires, do you think the turf tires will grip ok?

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post #6 of 22 Old 03-15-2017, 12:21 PM
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Re: Tire Chains and Driveway damage

With 4-6" of heavy stuff and a blade - you will have trouble in any configuration. I doubt you would spin with a blower, but then again with heavy stuff - some blowers can have trouble feeding in the snow.

I run AG's and lots of weight and do really good. 3" or under = blade. 3" or more = blower.

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post #7 of 22 Old 03-15-2017, 12:22 PM
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Re: Tire Chains and Driveway damage

These "Rubber Chains" are not supposed to scratch, my first use this Winter, and no problem at all on the flat asphalt & concrete drive (do have Run-guard in tires + weights, equals 130#/tire extra + 30# @ front tire). I do have a slight slope and do have a little spinning there, I'm using a snow thrower which is heavy but with small metal wheels. You do have 105#/tire added, for normal snow that should be fine, but more weight is better -- now 'wet' heavy snow is very hard to plow, as is 12" or more of snow.
I'ld recommend more weight first (filled tires are nice but then you need to dedicate these for Winter use only, too heavy to mow moist grass with). Your sand is behind the axle and does help with traction, but reduces steering control.
Good Luck
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post #8 of 22 Old 03-15-2017, 08:57 PM
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Re: Tire Chains and Driveway damage

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6.2Blazer View Post
The amount of power you are applying, in this case how far you push down on the forward pedal, needs regulated. Not saying the OP is not doing this but I have seen a lot of people who just smash the pedal to the floor and let it sit there and spin the tires. You can get a feel for how much power/pedal is applied without spinning the tires. If you watch very experienced equipment operators they rarely ever have the tires or tracks spin.
Actually, with a HST transmission the more you push down on the pedal the less power you have. Pushing down on the pedal basically puts you into a higher gear. You go faster but with less power. The most power from an HST is achieved by just barely pressing the pedal.

There are a lot of folks who incorrectly equate the direction pedals on a HST tractor to the accelerator pedal in an automobile. When they need more power they mash the pedal and the results are not what they expect. :-)
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post #9 of 22 Old 03-15-2017, 09:21 PM
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Re: Tire Chains and Driveway damage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merc1973 View Post
Well, I sealed my driveway last summer and scratched it all up with yesterday's 4-6" of heavy sleet and my chains and plow. I still have tires slipping, with 45# wheel weights, 60lb bag of sand strapped to the back hitch plate, 60# bag of asphalt patch on the middle fender deck.

Any alternatives? Ag or HDAP? Rubber Chains?




Picture from last winter:
If your worried about scratching the seal coat off I suggest going with AG tires or Terra-grip chains as Glen suggested. I ran Ag tires for many years and several different tractors. As Long as I had either wheel weights or rear ballast I never really had a Problem pushing snow. One tractor I always ran chains on was my Cub Cadet 106 until about 2012 when I had concrete driveway Put In I switch the terra-Grips https://superior-tech.com/rubber-tire-chains.html and they Preformed as well as the chains I had used for about 9 years on the Cub. This Past year My Plowing tractor was a JD 140H3 with AG tires & my Blowing tractor is a JD X748 with Kendra's version of HDAP. This spring I am finally switching the Cub over to AG tires which I really like for winter work. BTW that G100 sure looks well care for

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post #10 of 22 Old 03-15-2017, 09:32 PM
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Re: Tire Chains and Driveway damage

I plowed for over 5 years with an LX172, a 42" blade and chains only in the snowbelt SE of Oswego NY. Driveway damage was minimal, power application was critical, taking less than a full plow width when the snow was over 12" or at the EOD was frequently necessary. With these light tractors patience and gear selection is necessary but they can do the job.
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post #11 of 22 Old 03-15-2017, 11:12 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Tire Chains and Driveway damage

Thanks guys, i was much easier on the go pedal and being more aware of spinning, but it still scratched more than i thought. I did notice i didnt tighten the chains as much as this year, maybe it was one link too loose... I think i will go with some Ag tires and extra weight. Im excited!

The G100 is much dirtier now since last photo, with mud from moving the cut up 5 oaks i had felled, tree debris cleanup all winter, and an oil pan gasket leak that needs attention.

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JD 46" snow Blade

Stihl 031AV (WIMA cap, base gasket delete) 20"
Echo CS-590 (MM) 20"
Husqvarna 128LD Trimmer
Giant Vac w/ 6.5HP Predator Engine
Unknown 1980's Japanese backpack Blower with Kawasaki engine
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post #12 of 22 Old 03-15-2017, 11:25 PM
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Re: Tire Chains and Driveway damage

It is really hard not to spin the tires when plowing snow. If you are truly concerned about scuffing the asphalt, I would consider swapping the plow with a blower. They are much easier to push resulting in minimal wheel spin. If you are going to keep the plow, try ag tires and add more weight. At least with Ag tires you can spin and not hurt the drive. I'm not familiar with the rear end in your machine, but be careful not to over work it.
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post #13 of 22 Old 03-16-2017, 01:01 AM
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Re: Tire Chains and Driveway damage

The max rated axle load for a K66 hydro is 700 lb and the tractor contributes about 250 lb to that load. That leaves you with 450 lb for the operator and weight hanging on the rear of the tractor.

In addition, a full load of Rim Guard in the tires will add 90-100 lb each, plus the wheel weights and chains for an all up maximum weight on the rear tires of just over 1000 lb. From your description, you currently have 530 lb plus the operator, so you still have the capability to add a bit more ballast to the tractor after loading the tires.

A full load of Rim Guard will increase the ground pressure applied by the tires by about 2.5 psi. If compaction is really a concern, reduce the air pressure in the rear tires a corresponding amount over what is currently in them, and call it even.

Light tractors, whether LTs or entry level GTs, are difficult to ballast for traction in all winter conditions. The tires are going to spin when forced. The additional ballast will at least make the occasions when they do break loose less frequent.

Ag tires have large smooth lugs designed to penetrate the ground and act as paddle wheels to gain traction. They don't really work all that well even on the heavy well ballasted GTs when dealing with hard packed snow or hard asphalt where they cannot penetrate the surface. Turfs, on the other hand, have many sipes, small fissures in the tread, that supply a multitude of small edges to grab hard packed snow for better traction on hard surfaces.

Weight is the key, within the limits of the equipment. My GT plows with a 54" wide bucket while pulling a 5" wide back blade, and it will do that through 18" of fresh snow with only 400 lb of ballast on chained turfs. The difference is, the tractor weighs over 1000 lb all by itself, and if the back wheels break loose, I lift the back blade which adds 250 lb to the ballast load. It does not spin on asphalt unless I want it to spin.

As mentioned previously, scratch marks can be hidden just by resealing the driveway. My neighbor spins the chained turfs of his LT all winter. By the time the spring rains are done, few, if any, of those marks are still visible.

Bob

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post #14 of 22 Old 03-16-2017, 06:22 AM
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Re: Tire Chains and Driveway damage

Reseal the driveway in the spring......

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post #15 of 22 Old 03-16-2017, 01:24 PM
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Re: Tire Chains and Driveway damage

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Originally Posted by TUDOR View Post
Ag tires have large smooth lugs designed to penetrate the ground and act as paddle wheels to gain traction. They don't really work all that well even on the heavy well ballasted GTs when dealing with hard packed snow or hard asphalt where they cannot penetrate the surface. Turfs, on the other hand, have many sipes, small fissures in the tread, that supply a multitude of small edges to grab hard packed snow for better traction on hard surfaces.
My experience differs at the 2 houses if have owned in the last 13 years in southern WI. I clear the snow off of the driveway down to the asphalt. The sun then melts any remaining snow and leaves me with a perfectly clear driveway within a day or 2 after the storm. So I am talking about traction on asphalt, not traction on hard pack. You will likely never convince me that steel chains get good traction on a hard concrete or asphalt surface. Soft rubber is what I want for traction. I agree 100% with your Canadian conditions and hard pack......chains are the way to go.

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