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2014 X738 - CTC FEL Questions

8K views 33 replies 11 participants last post by  TUDOR 
#1 ·
In the next two or three weeks I will be installing a CTC loader on a 2014 X738.

The background is here: http://www.mytractorforum.com/72-introductions/1008746-hi.html#post9579594

Because I need to do the install relatively quickly (I need to keep the gift a surprise), I am gathering all the parts and thinking about possible issues ahead of time. I also spent a lot of time learning from many great previous threads here concerning installations of the CTC and the JD 45 loaders. There is an absolute ton of knowledge here.

I have a couple questions I hope someone can answer.

1. I assume 2014 X738s need the larger THRV (BW15044). In looking through the installation instructions for the JD Tractor Shovel, however, it says the larger THRV is not needed. Is this because the blade has some give when contacting the ground or material? My concern is whether 2014+ 738s and 758s already have the larger valve. Unfortunately I won't know until I am taking apart my father's tractor.

2. I am a little unclear on how the hydraulic system is plumbed. Once the lines and rams for the FEL are flooded and the air purged, do I need to add hydraulic fluid to a reservoir separate from the transmission reservoir? Or is the fluid I would check/add for the transmission the same as that which plumbs implements?

3. For 2, now much extra fluid should I purchase?

My father already has the SCV and lockout valve for the front blade. (I might change the lockout valve to one that requires fewer turns.) He also has a suitcase weight rack on the back for the blade. I will look into adding more weight to keep things balanced, but he seems to be okay for some light toying around when he realizes we got him the FEL.

4. Is there anything else I should consider?

Thanks in advance.
 
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#2 ·
2. & 3. About 0.7 quarts of fluid for the transmission. Fill to the proper level with all cylinders fully retracted after exercising them 3-5 times full stroke to purge the air.

5. Load the rear tires with Rim Guard. A proper 75% fill will be about 140 lb per tire.

Stability for loader operations is rather important, and that takes a lower center of gravity. It's pretty hard to get lower than pinning the tire treads to the ground with 280 lb of fluid.

You might want to study the chart in post 10 of this thread.
 
#6 ·
2. & 3. About 0.7 quarts of fluid for the transmission. Fill to the proper level with all cylinders fully retracted after exercising them 3-5 times full stroke to purge the air.

5. Load the rear tires with Rim Guard. A proper 75% fill will be about 140 lb per tire.

. . . .
Thank you, Bob. And the chart is extremely helpful.

For any Full size Loader on the Deere X700 series Tractors You Need the Hydrostatic Relief Valve Keep In Mind Deere doesn't Produce the Valve (BW15044) This Is a Tuff-Torq Part( with Deere Part Number On it) You will also Need this Part as well M146148 free-wheeling valve control lever with the Installation of the Valve You need a Longer Handle . The Hydrostatic Relief Valve is Not On the X738 as standard equipment.

If He's Got a a 3point Hitch I suggest Going with a Cat 1 Ballast Box. If Not Get Click & Go Brackets & a Click & Go Ballast Box. In the Past I Ran a JD 425 with a 40 loader & Just wheel weights & fluid Filled tires But I found the Best Loader Performance when I ran a Ballast Box. For stuff Like Mulch I can Can Get away with 6 suit Case weights On the rear weight Bracket On My X748 with 45 Loader But Once I start Lifting heavy stuff Like Gravel & Dirt I Put On My 3point with I-Match quick Hitch & Cat 1 Ballast Box

You will Not Need any extra Low Viscosity Fluid for your the Trans when Loader Is attached The Trans Case is your reservoir
:thThumbsU
Thank you for confirming the need for the valve and lever. I will order both today.

Is the trans fluid the same as the loader fluid? Or are there separate reservoirs? I want to make sure I have everything where it needs to be.

If you are going to shim the relief valve, do it when you put in the THRV as its right next to it.
I'm on the fence for shimming. Part of my instructions to my father will be about overloading the bucket. I would prefer he make two scoops where one might do, if it means more stability and less stress on the tractor. I need to think about this a little more.

. . . . I would recommend using colored tape to id the hydraulic lines and to get the protector caps for the ends of the hydraulic fixings to keep dirt out and to help id where each line goes onto the tractor.
Definitely. I will pick up a set of colored plugs/caps like those that come on the blade's hoses.

***

Thanks everyone. I appreciate your expertise.
 
#3 ·
For any Full size Loader on the Deere X700 series Tractors You Need the Hydrostatic Relief Valve Keep In Mind Deere doesn't Produce the Valve (BW15044) This Is a Tuff-Torq Part( with Deere Part Number On it) You will also Need this Part as well M146148 free-wheeling valve control lever with the Installation of the Valve You need a Longer Handle . The Hydrostatic Relief Valve is Not On the X738 as standard equipment.

If He's Got a a 3point Hitch I suggest Going with a Cat 1 Ballast Box. If Not Get Click & Go Brackets & a Click & Go Ballast Box. In the Past I Ran a JD 425 with a 40 loader & Just wheel weights & fluid Filled tires But I found the Best Loader Performance when I ran a Ballast Box. For stuff Like Mulch I can Can Get away with 6 suit Case weights On the rear weight Bracket On My X748 with 45 Loader But Once I start Lifting heavy stuff Like Gravel & Dirt I Put On My 3point with I-Match quick Hitch & Cat 1 Ballast Box

You will Not Need any extra Low Viscosity Fluid for your the Trans when Loader Is attached The Trans Case is your reservoir
:thThumbsU
 
#20 ·
For any Full size Loader on the Deere X700 series Tractors You Need the Hydrostatic Relief Valve Keep In Mind Deere doesn't Produce the Valve (BW15044) This Is a Tuff-Torq Part( with Deere Part Number On it) You will also Need this Part as well M146148 free-wheeling valve control lever with the Installation of the Valve You need a Longer Handle . The Hydrostatic Relief Valve is Not On the X738 as standard equipment.
Why do you need these things and what will happen if you install a CTC loader without them?
 
#5 ·
I think you will enjoy the CTC loader. Next to my mower, it is the best accessory that I have for my x720. Putting in the THRV isn't hard, an hour job. I didn't shim the relief valve and I still can lift 7-800 lbs with 450 lbs of weight on the back. Plenty for my needs. I would recommend using colored tape to id the hydraulic lines and to get the protector caps for the ends of the hydraulic fixings to keep dirt out and to help id where each line goes onto the tractor.
 
#9 · (Edited)
How quickly two months pass.

The FEL arrives this evening -- for the second time. On its first arrival, it looked like it had fallen off a FedEx truck (and it may have). Among other things, the pallet was not the one CTC used, the FEL lacked any wrapping, the box of parts was crushed, the hydraulic lines damaged, the powder coating gouged, and a list of other items damaged. I won't get into the gory details here, but after a few days of spirited conversations with FedEx, FedEx transported it back to CTC, which inspected it, replaced and/or repaired the components, and crated it (I wanted to make sure it arrived as protected as possible) for its second trip east. To its credit, the "escalated" members of FedEx's administration and claims were phenomenal to work with. FedEx covered (well, the check is supposed to be in the mail) the costs of repairs and shipping. I never was told what exactly happened, but I suppose it's water under the bridge now. CTC -- particularly Staci -- also was extremely helpful throughout.

Hopefully sometime this weekend I will have photographs of its installed.
 
#10 ·
Another reason to dislike FedEx. Hope you get the loader installed soon.:thThumbsU
 
#11 · (Edited)
So far, so good!

Picture 1 is how it was unloaded from the truck the first time it arrived. Seemingly somewhere between WI and PA, the truck drove through a tornado? Who knows. I first was told it was CTC's fault for not loading/packaging it correctly. My (and CTC's) reply? That's not CTC's pallet, box, etc. At this point, I was concerned I would be in for a prolonged fight with FedEx. CTC was phenomenal through the process.

Picture 2 is on its return arrival to CTC. FedEx asked for detailed pictures of the damage. Some I had from when I received it and sent it back. CTC provided more. Damaged lines, destroyed box, etc. Not shown are the dents to the bucket, the gouges to the finish (which started to rust), etc.

Picture 3 is its second arrival, this time crated. As part of my negotiations with FedEx, I required it to be returned crated to prevent damage like the first time. CTC and its powdercoater had their work cut out for them, and it appears they both did a great job. Only if you look hard can you find a tiny dig or two in the powdercoating, where the coater did his/her best to smooth it out. Nothing to worry about. The shine will be lost as my father uses it to bring logs out of the forest using the hooks and log tongs.

Since I ordered it in early June, I became a father, and my father a first-time grandfather, and this (and a lot of things!) have taken a backseat. So, this install will take some time. Maybe next weekend, or the weekend after that. As excited as my father was to see the loader, he was more distracted walking his property carrying his grandson. :fing32:

Also arriving yesterday was the reimbursement check for the repairs. Notwithstanding what happened, I am extremely happy with FedEx Freight's claims process. One check to go, for the cost of return shipping.
 

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#12 ·
Congrats on your first born, that sure changes priorities. Given the amount of damage and the poor condition of the shipment I am dismayed that CTC didn't simply just send you another loader and they take the battle to FedEx. Secondly, I would have had a very difficult time paying any additional money for FedEx screw ups even with the reassurance of reimbursement.
 
#14 · (Edited)
Given the amount of damage and the poor condition of the shipment I am dismayed that CTC didn't simply just send you another loader and they take the battle to FedEx.
I think it's a two-fold issue. First, although CTC has a name that sounds like a large operation, it largely is a small operation. So, every minute spent working on my problem is a minute not manufacturing a loader or implement for someone else, and in turn, making money. With small businesses, your hard work is your roof over your head or your food on your table. Second, I think CTC subscribes to the response of larger operations, that is, once the unit leaves its facility, it's on the shipper and the buyer. I'm not troubled. I remember the Uniform Commercial Code from school many years ago. Plus, from what I do every day, I didn't mind a little challenge.

To its credit, CTC was helpful every step of the way -- as was FedEx claims. It was a far cry from the first delivery, when the driver told us that we could not reject the shipment. During my first call with FedEx's administration (before claims), I was told that was entirely inappropriate (of course it was!). I think that set the tone for FedEx's response the rest of the way, including sending a truck and empty pup trailer on a special assignment to pick it up the next day.

Secondly, I would have had a very difficult time paying any additional money for FedEx screw ups even with the reassurance of reimbursement.
CTC was willing to hold the loader pending FedEx's resolution of the claim. I chose to push forward to limit the delays. But I agree -- I was uneasy until I received notice that FedEx approved the claim. Of course, the check in hand was better.

Would be really interesting to find out the real story behind what happened en route that caused the initial situation.
Agreed. Given the quick claim approval, however, I assume that whatever happened was documented on camera or elsewhere, and will be known only to FedEx and the employee(s) who were told to be more careful. :00000060:

***

The X738 goes in for a full service this week. Considering the loader should (will?) void the balance of the warranty, I want the next service to be as far off as possible. I don't want to have to uninstall the frame mounts any sooner than I need to. :D
 
#15 ·
At any rate I'm glad it was resolved to your satisfaction. Oh and :wwp:
 
#16 ·
I'm glad it worked out for you but two things I want to say. One, FedEx is the best shipping company of any on the planet. I served in Vietnam with Fred Smith and he is the most loyal and trustworthy person in business today. Two, CTC in my experience is a one horse company with no room for customer support. I bought a 332 rear weight bracket from him that looked like an OEM but turned out to be a piece of junk. It took days of NO/zero communications from CTC until finally eBay had to step in and make him honor his guarantee to allow returns of his junk. I had to pay 20% "Restocking fee" for a piece of tin that wouldn't hold four JD weights. Good luck on your loader. I hope it is better than the junk he tried to sell me.
 
#17 ·
I apologize for getting of topic, but you of course are entitled to your opinion. My son worked for FedEx and he was screwed over so many times that I was fit to be tied. Fred may be a great guy as you say, FedEx is a different matter.
 
#19 ·
Rooster, I can't vouch for every employee that works for FedEx but the company is a much better company that UPS or some of the other companies. When we all got out of the USMC, Fred offered any of us who wanted a job as pilots, jobs with his new company. He is a man of his word and all I can say about your son is that he must have worked for an a$$hole of a boss. Fred just stared down the DoJ when they tried to shake them down on the drug shipping issue. UPS caved but not FedEx. They decided to fight and the courts sided with them over the b@stards at the DoJ. I'm sorry about your son but I have known so many employees of FedEx that loved the company that it makes your son's case seem rare.
 
#25 ·
What I know is gleaned from reading this forum so...as I understand it the relief valve came with the 45 loader as part of the kit to install. As for shimming, I cannot answer that for sure.
 
#26 ·
Stupid is as stupid does. No pictures; it's too painful.

The loader is installed. Except that he can't lift the bucket higher than a foot or so.

Why? Arrogance. This installation wasn't my first mechanical rodeo. I have been wrenching on my 4x4s and Polaris Rzr forever. I followed folks' instructions here for shimming and the relief valve. They were perfect. 1200 PSI with one 3mm shim. I could have used a 5mm for more, but I thought I would keep it on the lower side of the safe spectrum.

I didn't use the instructions for the loader, except for plumbing the lines. Just looked at a couple pictures. Except I did not look closely enough. I installed the lift cylinders backwards -- rod end out. And, when I slowly tested it, I couldn't understand why the lines were too short. And then it hit me.

So, next weekend I will be popping out the collar pins, popping out the pivot pins, and undoing some hoses. Wearing goggles and gloves for when the fluid inevitably drains. I'll also be fixing a couple small leaks where the hoses connect to the hard lines. Even though I removed the retaining plates to make wrenching easier, I was concerned about bending the lines when tightening. That and the clearances of some of the pin holes (two were slightly off, so I had to grind the pivot pins to a cone end to get them to catch and pull the pieces together). By and large, however, the loader looks quality.

Sometimes my stupidity amazes me.

But, to all those who provided great instructions here -- thank you. But for me, it would have been a flawless install. Next weekend I'll have pictures.
 
#27 ·
Mistakes are part of the learning process. When you survive them, then you have experience, and no one can take that away from you! :fing32:
 
#28 ·
****, seems like I do most projects 3 times before getting them done right.

Rob
 
#29 · (Edited)
Success!

Overall, it is an extremely solid product. And it is a heck of a lot of fun. It, however, suffers from what many non-OEM implements do: no one-size fits all. For example, it is easily removed, but requires precision and pulling one of the vertical mounts away from the tractor to install because the dimensions are just a little too narrow, and a mallet to get the pins to lock to the front bumper because they are just a little off. These issues aren't enough to regret purchasing it, nor do they render it at all unusable. My father's smile, albeit delayed, says it all.

In a few days I will post a fairly detailed review with some installation tips. Next weekend or the one after I will finish the last steps -- spot sanding and touching up the areas where I damaged the powder coating when installing or removing pieces, and greasing all of the contact and slide points.

Oh, and there are six suitcase weights on the back, and wheel weights are on their way.
 

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#30 ·
Congrats to you and your dad. Well done and and thanks for keeping us posted. Looking forward to your follow up report.

Sent from my cell phone
 
#31 ·
Looks good. I've been out of town for two weeks and this is one of the first threads that I wanted to catch up on. Awaiting your follow up.
 
#32 ·
Looks sweet! :thThumbsU
 
#33 ·
So I still owe you a review. I'm getting to it, honest! The last weekend I visited Pops, I built about 75% of a storage dolly for the loader, similar to this.



The framing (all custom with 2x4s and 3" bolts) is complete, but I am struggling with the wheels. Small casters would work, but I want something for a little rougher travel. The problem is that anything larger makes it too high to fit under the front bumper guard built into the loader frame. I'm trying to find some axle-less wheels with preferably pneumatic tires that I can attach to the sides. The frame also has a point to attach a 2x4 that will have a 2" hitch the fre end so it can be pulled around.
 
#34 ·
Make Z-shaped brackets to mount your larger wheels behind and in front of the bucket. Yes, it will take a few more inches of storage space in front of the bucket, but not if you make the front wheels detachable, or substitute flip up/down standoffs for support when setting the bucket on the platform.
 
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