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Home Made Tractor CUT Axel And Frame

197K views 925 replies 47 participants last post by  ElectricalBen 
#1 ·
I got something do over the weekend. Got my rear tires. Cut the rear end houseing. Cut the axels. Had to cut 14-1/2 from both sides. So I'm standing back trying to decide if I want a 3PTH or just leave it a a big lawn mower and trailer mover. He is what I did.
 

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#28 ·
At 15" axle height, you need 552.6 rpm to rear gear. What engine rpm do you want to use to get 12mph?

I think you should shoot for about 12 gpm at 2800 psi for the motive drive. A hydrastat on the motive and a fixed displ. on the FEL works great. I like the forward/reverse on my CASE 448 and it uses a fixed pump for motive control, which might be cheaper.
 
#29 ·
Hydronerd actually has the better calculation method for rpm, but I'll do this the long way for the exercise.

Speed - 12 mph (12 x 5280 / 60 = 1056'/min)

Tire - 31" dia (31 x 3.14159/12 = 8.116 ')

Wheel rpm - (1056/8.116 = 130 rpm)

Diff input rpm - (4.11 x 130 = 535 rpm) In high range.

Hydraulic ratio, pump to motor - Pump @ 3600 rpm, Motor @ 535 rpm = 6.14:1

Motor will need to displace 6.14 times the displacement of the pump.

Horsepower requirements aren't all that great for mowing or towing trailers. Anything over about 6-8 hp to the rear wheels is going to create wheelspin, rather than forward motion, unless large towed weights and/or steep slopes are involved. I'll recommend 12 hp as the max required, or 12 gpm @1500 psi, or equivalent numbers.

There are 2 options:

1. Sundstrand hydro pump section and a geared motor. Sundstrand - 0.913 cid, Motor - 5.6 cid.

2. Gear pump, control valve, and gear motor.

Option 1 has some serious advantages, including hydro style control because it will be a hydrostatic drive transmission, even if made from not related components, and it will have a built in auxilliary hydraulic system for power steering and implement lifts.

Reservoir and cooler requirements aren't large since horsepower is not large, 2 - 4 gallons for the reservoir and a transmission cooler zip tied to the engine rad. If the system was operating at max performance, it would need to dump about 30,000 BTU of heat energy, mowing the grass, maybe a third to half of that.
 
#32 ·
Like all that thinking you do - always had you figured as a less thrower.
The shop sounds like the perfect place too.
The time is coming, soon, where I will have to spend a few days throwing odd bits and bloopers. I just can't let the trail through the shop get narrower than 6". I won't fit in there anymore!! :banghead3
 
#31 ·
Okay guys Thanks!!!!!!
You all blow my mine! Tudor you really did it. I will get to you in a minute!!
Hydronerd!! I’m going to run this engine 3600 to make the MMM work. Right now I really don’t know how to run it. Either with a PTO clutch like a zero turn or hydraulic and what hyd motor to use. Which will give me better control and power? You and Tudor are on the same page. Tell me more about the FEL valve and how this works. Will it work like a craftsman gt5000 does? Where can I find one. Will this valve give me a cruise control or will I have to operate this valve contance foot or hand pressure? Does Bailey or surpluses have a part number?

Alright Tudor. I for sure don’t understand 12HP!! My MMM will stall my John Deere 750 with a 20 HP engine! I understand this may only take 12HP to drive it. But what about and how would I drive a 62In MMM with a hydraulic motor and drive this thing and have the power to move quick. Could you give me some part numbers to look at for the pump, drive and control valve? I’m looking to buy some soon. How will I control two different hyd motors like the MMM and the drive? You have done told me one time and I still have it but which gear sets will I need to run a high and a low for my gear box. I’m attaching that chart again so other can see it.
I for sure need help here. Balieys and surpluse have too many parts for me to look at and understand what I need to work with.
Thanks for all you guys for helping and making comments. The comments keeps us all thinking.


10 Spline Quick Change Gear Chart
Find your ring and pinion ratio.
Read down the column to find the final ratio you want.
Look across the row to find the gear set number you need.
Gear Set # Number of Teeth Low Spur
Ratio High Spur
Ratio 4.11 Ring & Pinion 4.86 Ring & Pinion
Small Large Low High Low High
1 21 21 1.000 1.000 4.11 4.11 4.86 4.86
2 27 28 1.037 0.964 4.26 3.96 5.04 4.69
5 24 25 1.042 0.960 4.28 3.95 5.06 4.67
15 20 21 1.050 0.952 4.32 3.91 5.10 4.63
26 27 29 1.074 0.931 4.41 3.83 5.22 4.52
6 23 25 1.087 0.920 4.47 3.78 5.28 4.47
25 20 22 1.100 0.909 4.52 3.74 5.35 4.42
12 26 29 1.115 0.897 4.58 3.68 5.42 4.36
7 23 26 1.130 0.885 4.65 3.64 5.49 4.30
17 19 22 1.158 0.864 4.76 3.55 5.63 4.20
8 22 26 1.182 0.846 4.86 3.48 5.74 4.11
19 21 25 1.190 0.840 4.89 3.45 5.79 4.08
9 19 23 1.211 0.826 4.98 3.40 5.88 4.01
11 18 22 1.222 0.818 5.02 3.36 5.94 3.98
3 25 31 1.240 0.806 5.10 3.31 6.03 3.92
13 20 25 1.250 0.800 5.14 3.29 6.08 3.89
18 19 24 1.263 0.792 5.19 3.25 6.14 3.85
4 24 31 1.292 0.774 5.31 3.18 6.28 3.76
20 20 26 1.300 0.769 5.34 3.16 6.32 3.74
 
#33 ·
Okay! The 12 hp is for the tractor and is designed to be the maximum available. If you need that kind of power for the rear wheels, you won't be using a powered implement at the same time.

If your 60" deck can kill 20 horsepower, you really don't want to drive a 62" deck hydraulically with a 22 hp engine. Hydraulics are very flexible, but they are not as efficient as straight mechanical drive systems. What the hydraulics can do for you is to allow you to change your ground speed fast enough that there is less chance for the mower to kill the engine.

Powering multiple drives with one pump adds complexity, and hoses, to a system. The higher the capacity of the system, the larger the hoses. Space is at a premium on small tractors, and it can be beneficial to run multiple correctly sized pumps rather than one very large pump and multiple control components.

I suggested previously using a Sundstrand hydro pump section as giving the best of both worlds, multi-tasking with minimum additional hoses and ancilliary components. That pump coupled with this motor, will give close to the target speed and loads of power to the rear wheels without the need for a control valve.

This pump plus the above motor and this control valve should also meet parameters. With the addition of a priority valve, a dedicated portion of the pump flow can be utilized for implement lift hydraulics and power steering at the cost of about 25% of available top speed. Pumps with over an inch displacement that will turn at 3600 rpm seem to be rather scarce, and the added displacement is necessary to support the power steering, etc., without sacrificing speed.

I only used one potential source for the majority of the components. There are many sources available.

I was sure that we had the gear sets ironed out. I'll look around for that post. I can't remember if the selection will have any bearing on the input rpm.
 
#51 ·
Okay Guys and Tudor!

How big of a hydraulic tank will I nee for this Sundstrand Hydraulic Pump. Will 7 gallons be big enought?? Help before I make the wrong size tank!!!!
 
#34 ·
Tudor! Thanks for these part numbers. I like the surplus center parts the best. The control valve how do this work. Do I have to keep constent foot or hand preaure to keep the speed I want? If I went with two hydraulic pumps how would I do that. Is this to different pumps or two made into one pump?

Okay. Is under the seat a good place to have a hydraulic fliud tank and a fuel tank together! Will the heat from the hydraulic be bad?
 

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#35 ·
I'm pretty sure the valve lever would need a friction device of some description to be used as a cruise control, preferably one that is easily overridden.

What you want the pumps to do will dictate to some extent whether you use 2 separate pumps or a double pump. The Sundstrand is 2 different pumps in one housing.

Normal operating temperature for hydraulic systems is 120 *- 160*. Personally, I wouldn't appreciate sitting on top of the reservoir. Not really a good plan to have the fuel tank in close proximity to it, either.
 
#36 ·
Tudor Thanks for the information. I may buy the Sundstrand pump. I'm going to rethink the hydro tank. Maybe I will install the battery and fuel tank in the back. I'm going to figure out for sure what gears I'm going to use. Look at a 5.10 ring and pionion. maybe this will give me more chorces of gear sets to use. Opinions from anybody is great and needed.
 
#37 ·
Math people!!!

30 In tall tires 4.86 ring and pionion Winters quick change chart gears . Which gear set will I have to get for a 750 RPM hydraulic motor to move @12 MPH???

All the race car gear charts are standard, Winters, Speedway engineering, Frankland.
 
#40 ·
12 MPH x 5280 FT. Per Mile = 63360 FT.
63360 divided by 60 min. = 1056 FT. Per Min.
1056 divided by the tire diameter in FT. or 7.85' = 134.5 RPM of the differential input shaft
750 RPM divided by 134.5 RPM = 5.57 to 1 reduction


30" tire x 3.1416 = 94.25" divided by 12 = 7.85 FT.
 
#42 ·
Thanks Don,

Look at this!!
5.13 R&P
30In tall tire
750 RPM hydraulic motor
12 MPH 5.64 to 1 20/22 gear set
8 MPH 9.65 To 1 17/32 gear set

Is this right!
 
#45 ·
I found the chart that you posted earlier.

http://www.1speedway.com/Quick_Change_Gear_Charts.htm

Gear set #35 works out perfect with a change in motor size to 8.67 cid. This one will work.

Keep in mind that there are a number of fudge factors in place. The effective tire diameter is one that is dependent on air pressure and physical load on the tire. Hydraulic volumetric efficiency is another that is affected by pressure. Depending on how the stars (and fudge factors) align, top speed will be 10-12 mph in HI and 5-6 mph in LO.
 
#46 ·
Hi Guys I found that I can get a 5.13 R&P. I know Tudor said I needed a large number R&P to get in the middle of the gear and hydraulic motor range.

Thanks Tudor and all the help you guys are doing for me.

Can I use just a in tank filter for the hydraulic and fuel tank from surplus center?
 
#47 ·
When you buy your pump through surplus center look at the specs and they normally call out the filtration requirements ie. 25 microns 15 microns etc. I would stick with the requirements. I am sure you are not going to get a high enough filtration from an in tank strainer. you will have to use an exterior mounted spin on type.
 
#49 ·
Tudor,

I'm going to buy that Sundstrand pump today.

Hydronerd. Thanks for this information on this pump.

Yes my tractor has race car part in it. Waite till I finish and see all the race car parts I have in mine.
 
#52 ·
That's lots. My MF1655 only has 5 quarts, but it also has the matching piston motor.

A longer, skinnier tank will dump more heat than a shorter, fatter tank due to more surface area.
 
#53 ·
Looks like I better revise my tank size before this goes out the back door!!!
 
#55 ·
Done,

I know what you mean. I try to do too much at a time. I need to get more parts before I do anything else. I did order the pump Tudor suggested for me to order. Not sure if a 7 gallon hydraulic tank will be big enought. I,m braking the rules as of now my tank in under the seat. I'm going to hold on the tank until I get and mount the pump to the engine to see how much room I will have to work with.

All please comment.
 
#56 ·
Good deal ordering the pump , know what you mean trying to visualize how it's all going to fit together. You'll know better once your parts are in front of you.

I liked Tudor's idea on your tank - more area for cooling . Plus if your going to have a cooler you can factor that in as well.

I got a decent one "Derale 8-Pass Electra-Cool Remote Coolers " large tubes so it should be able to carry a lot of volume. Not sure if I will use a fan with it , I do have a temp sensor in the tank I don't hear too much about them but seems like a good idea.

Donewrken

:fing32:
 
#57 ·
Be carefull with the long and skinny reservoirs. Tractors operate at multiple angles to level and you don't ever want the supply port on the tank to be above the oil level.
 
#58 ·
Tudor,

You are right! My out port tube is going to come up about 2In above the bottom of this tank. I'm going to have a beafel down the middle and my in port tube is going up high and to the other side of the out port side. Beafel being between the two ports. Should I have an in tank out port filter or just use a screw on filter between the tank and pump. I'm also going to install a sight oil level gage as well.

I'm not going to do too much more until I get the sundstrand pump in. Boy do you have questions coming when it gets here.
 
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